[Vision2020] Coulter's Dream - from CNN

Sat Oct 13 21:03:00 PDT 2007

Paul,

  I think your example just reinforces the point that religious differences cause conflict. 

  The absolute belief that one thinks their religion is the correct one could be considered egotistical, or it could also be be the result of unwavering faith and belief. Maybe they made spiritual contact and thus certain. 

  Part of being a Christian is to believe it is exclusive. To doubt Christ is the only answer, is to doubt the faith, and thus you are not Christian. You cannot have a religion that allows for you to doubt the correctness of its dogma. It defeats its purpose. It is like being on a football team that isn't sure if it should be for itself or the other team. Every team player plays for the team, or they are not a part of it. 

  You are right that most people adopt the basic religious beliefs of their family. But that might be that God has people born into the faith be thinks is best for leading them to him. Maybe a loving God places his children as close to the door that they can most easily open to him.

  Best,

  Donovan

Paul Rumelhart <godshatter at yahoo.com> wrote:
  I don't have any hostility towards christians whatsoever. I just don't 
think the world will be such a perfect place if they got their wish and 
everyone was brought into the fold. For an example of what I'm talking 
about, look at Doug Wilson and his brother. They believe almost exactly 
the same thing, especially when you compare their beliefs to those of a 
buddhist or a shinto priest. Yet they have one point of contention and 
they spend the rest of their lives fighting about it.

This absolute belief that a person's religion is the best one is the 
problem. I'm beginning to see Richard Dawkin's point about this. Having 
such a belief, that you are absolutely right to have chosen the religion 
you have, is dangerous. For one thing, most religions are doing this - 
so you know that at least one of you is wrong. That should be enough to 
make you wonder, deep down, if you really are on the right team or not. 
For a second thing, most people don't choose their religions. They take 
what they were given at birth and make a go of it. Assuming you were 
born at the perfect time and place to be among the Chosen is about as 
absurd as believing that your particular genetics make you part of a 
race of uber-humans.

I know I'm burning through whatever respect I once had, but understand 
that it's OK to question your beliefs, no matter how fundamental they are.

In my perfect world, there would be no organized religions. Everyone 
would seek the Truth for themselves. You would spend the rest of your 
life not knowing or caring what people other than those that you are 
closest to you believed in terms of spirituality. Maybe most people 
would end up being secretly Catholic. Who knows?

Paul

Donovan Arnold wrote:
> Paul,
> Wow, you really got some hostility towards Christians! I personally 
> don't see a great deal of conflict between people of the same religion 
> for religious reasons. Most wars and conflict are about control of a 
> limited valuable resource, such as land, gold, diamonds, or oil, not a 
> religious belief. Secondly, most Christians are in South America and 
> Africa. I don't think these nations, as a whole, are particularly 
> hostile to others for their brand of particular practice of 
> Christianity. Most of them are just poor people trying to eek out an 
> existence under brutal governments.
> In regards to AC's statements, I think what you said was what she was 
> meaning; she was not given an opportunity to elaborate, she was asked 
> a poorly worded question and she said "yeah". The interviewer worded 
> the question, not her. I don't think it "shocking" that a person would 
> respond in the affirmative that their religion is the best one, or 
> would want others to share in the rewards of following that faith.
> Again, she did not make demeaning statement about others, or their 
> faith. Just that she thought her faith was the best one, which is, 
> what most religious people would say.
> Best,
> Donovan
>
> */Paul Rumelhart /* wrote:
>
> From what I can see, the world would not be a better place if it was
> all Christian. Take a look at who Christians attack the most
> vehemently.
> It's not the athiests, it's not the satanists, it's not the muslims.
> It's other Christians. Any small difference between two sects, no
> matter
> how trivial, is grist for the mill. There is no room for tolerance
> there. When you truly believe that the Supreme Mugwump of the
> Universe
> tells you that you are Right and the rest of the world is Wrong,
> there
> is no room for such trivial things as an opposing opinion.
>
> And while I take your point that Ann Coulter was set up with that
> question, she could have provided an answer that was reasoned, low on
> rhetoric, and that was less egocentric. She could have mentioned that
> she hoped that everyone would become Christian so they could be
> saved,
> or that she thought a world that followed Christian morals would be a
> safer, happier place or something. But I didn't get that from her
> comments. I got that we should all be of her religion because she is
> Right and we are Wrong. She deserves everything she's getting from
> the
> media right now, in my opinion.
>
> I'm just happy that I don't watch TV and so I get to miss out on all
> this. I've still never heard her speak, and I'm happier for it.
>
> Paul
>
> Donovan Arnold wrote:
> > Ann Coulter should say, "Religious conflict and war is good, and
> that
> > some people should not be saved."?
> > I think this is rather absurd that people are making a big deal of
> > this. Ann Coulter did not say Jews, Muslims, Hindus, Atheists, all
> > other non-Christians were worthless, or inferior for their beliefs.
> > She didn't say other shouldn't be allowed to practice their
> religion.
> > What she said was that the world would be better off if the entire
> > world was Christian. Which from an empirical point of view, the
> world
> > would be better off if it was all one religion. Secondly, of course
> > Christians want all others to be Christians, that is a fundamental
> > belief of Christians that only Christians can be saved. It is
> also the
> > belief of many religions that their religion is the better, and/or
> > only true religion. I am Catholic, the largest and most diverse
> church
> > in the world, and our creed specifically states that the Holy Roman
> > Catholic Church is the "One and Only True Church".
> > If she said all Jews and non-Christians should die, and only
> > Christians are deserving of rights, that would be outrageous.
> But to
> > expect Ann Coulter's statements to say the opposite is true; the
> world
> > is better off if it has religious conflict and we should want
> others
> > to suffer eternal damnation, is suppose to be a more of an
> acceptable
> > statement?
> > I think she was kind of set up with that question. It didn't matter
> > which way she answered.
> > Best,
> > Donovan
> >
> > */Ted Moffett /* wrote:
> >
> > All-
> > Ann Coulter's books sell big time... She's laughing all the way to
> > the bank. Carl Westberg is right on the money (no pun intended)
> > about Coulter being "pure show business." The more outrageous her
> > comments, the more publicity. It's so obvious she's deliberately
> > aiming to upset people with extreme political incorrectness.
> > What is disturbing is that many people really believe what she
> > advocates. Millions do believe that the US would be better off if
> > we were all Christians. Correct? What is more shocking than
> > Coulter's comments, is that she is supported by a sizable fan
> > base. She definitely speaks to a large percentage of the US public
> > that admires her frank expression of views that they sympathize
> with.
> > She is merely a symptom of a much broader problem in US society.
> > Ted Moffett
> > On 10/12/07, *keely emerinemix*
> > > wrote:
> >
> > This is the same Ann Coulter who dated Joseph Guccione,
> > publisher of that paragon of Christian virtue, Penthouse
> > magazine. Miz Coulter is a nutcase, and I think the orderlies
> > need to find stronger straps.
> >
> > keely
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > From: privatejf32 at hotmail.com
> > To: joekc at adelphia.net ;
> > vision2020 at moscow.com
> > Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2007 10:33:59 -0700
> > Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Coulter's Dream - from CNN
> >
> >
> > Ann Coulter is totally nuts! "Perfected"? "Fast Track"?
> > What is that!!!!??? Who buys this stuff?
> >
> > J :]
> >
> >
> > > Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2007 06:46:38 -0700
> > > From: joekc at adelphia.net
> > > To: vision2020 at moscow.com
> > > Subject: [Vision2020] Coulter's Dream - from CNN
> > >
> > > Conservative commentator and best-selling author Ann
> > Coulter may find herself in the midst of a controversy for
> > comments Monday suggesting America would be better if
> > everyone was Christian.
> > >
> > > Asked by CNBC host Donny Deutsch what the U.S. looks like
> > in her dreams, Coulter said it would look like the
> > Republican National Convention in 2004
> > >
> > > "People were happy," she said, according to a transcript
> > provided to CNN by CNBC. "They're Christian. They're
> > tolerant. They defend America."
> > >
> > > When Deutsch responded, "It would be better if we were
> > all Christian?" Coulter said "Yeah."
> > >
> > > Deutsch, himself Jewish, continued to press Coulter on
> > her remarks, asking, "We should just throw Judaism away
> > and we should all be Christians then?"
> > >
> > > "Yeah," Coulter responded, adding "Well, it's a lot
> > easier. It's kind of a fast track."
> > >
> > > "You can't possibly believe that," Deutsch responded.
> > "You can't possibly. You're too educated."
> > >
> > > "Do you know what Christianity is?" Coulter replied.
> > "See, we believe your religion, but you have to obey. We
> > have the fast track program."
> > >
> > > Later in the interview Deutsch asked Coulter if she
> > doesn't want any Jews in the world, Coulter responded,
> > "No, we think — we just want Jews to be perfected, as they
> > say."
> > >
> > > "Wow, you didn't really say that, did you," Deutsch said.
> > >
> > > =======================================================
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