[Vision2020] Coulter's Dream - from CNN
Paul Rumelhart
godshatter at yahoo.com
Sat Oct 13 14:43:03 PDT 2007
I wasn't using the Wilson's feud as an upper bound on what could be
expected in the worst of christian-on-christian interaction. It was a
local illustration of the concept that small differences can mean more
to us than large ones.
Paul
g. crabtree wrote:
> Mr. Rumelhart, If the feud between the brothers Wilson is the example
> of the worst we might have to look forward to should the world be
> turned 100% to Christianity then all I can say is it can't happen fast
> enough.
>
> To the best of my knowledge, Evan has not attempted to run a car bomb
> into a school that has Doug's kin in attendance and Doug has made no
> effort to rain down mortars on the area immediately adjacent to the
> Big Haus. Conflict such as this would be a welcome relief from what
> we endure currently.
>
> Once this level of hostility is achieved world wide, we could seek to
> bring it down yet another notch to the point where disagreement is
> expressed via the tactically delivered Christmas fruit cake or the
> strategically launched Easter celebration.
>
> g
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Paul Rumelhart" <godshatter at yahoo.com
> <mailto:godshatter at yahoo.com>>
> To: "Donovan Arnold" <donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com
> <mailto:donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com>>
> Cc: <vision2020 at moscow.com <mailto:vision2020 at moscow.com>>; "Joe
> Campbell" <joekc at adelphia.net <mailto:joekc at adelphia.net>>
> Sent: Saturday, October 13, 2007 9:27 AM
> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Coulter's Dream - from CNN
>
> I don't have any hostility towards christians whatsoever. I just don't
> think the world will be such a perfect place if they got their wish and
> everyone was brought into the fold. For an example of what I'm talking
> about, look at Doug Wilson and his brother. They believe almost exactly
> the same thing, especially when you compare their beliefs to those of a
> buddhist or a shinto priest. Yet they have one point of contention and
> they spend the rest of their lives fighting about it.
>
> This absolute belief that a person's religion is the best one is the
> problem. I'm beginning to see Richard Dawkin's point about this. Having
> such a belief, that you are absolutely right to have chosen the religion
> you have, is dangerous. For one thing, most religions are doing this -
> so you know that at least one of you is wrong. That should be enough to
> make you wonder, deep down, if you really are on the right team or not.
> For a second thing, most people don't choose their religions. They take
> what they were given at birth and make a go of it. Assuming you were
> born at the perfect time and place to be among the Chosen is about as
> absurd as believing that your particular genetics make you part of a
> race of uber-humans.
>
> I know I'm burning through whatever respect I once had, but understand
> that it's OK to question your beliefs, no matter how fundamental they are.
>
> In my perfect world, there would be no organized religions. Everyone
> would seek the Truth for themselves. You would spend the rest of your
> life not knowing or caring what people other than those that you are
> closest to you believed in terms of spirituality. Maybe most people
> would end up being secretly Catholic. Who knows?
>
> Paul
>
> Donovan Arnold wrote:
> > Paul,
> > Wow, you really got some hostility towards Christians! I personally
> > don't see a great deal of conflict between people of the same religion
> > for religious reasons. Most wars and conflict are about control of a
> > limited valuable resource, such as land, gold, diamonds, or oil, not a
> > religious belief. Secondly, most Christians are in South America and
> > Africa. I don't think these nations, as a whole, are particularly
> > hostile to others for their brand of particular practice of
> > Christianity. Most of them are just poor people trying to eek out an
> > existence under brutal governments.
> > In regards to AC's statements, I think what you said was what she was
> > meaning; she was not given an opportunity to elaborate, she was asked
> > a poorly worded question and she said "yeah". The interviewer worded
> > the question, not her. I don't think it "shocking" that a person would
> > respond in the affirmative that their religion is the best one, or
> > would want others to share in the rewards of following that faith.
> > Again, she did not make demeaning statement about others, or their
> > faith. Just that she thought her faith was the best one, which is,
> > what most religious people would say.
> > Best,
> > Donovan
> >
> > */Paul Rumelhart <godshatter at yahoo.com>/
> <mailto:godshatter at yahoo.com%3E/>* wrote:
> >
> > From what I can see, the world would not be a better place if it was
> > all Christian. Take a look at who Christians attack the most
> > vehemently.
> > It's not the athiests, it's not the satanists, it's not the muslims.
> > It's other Christians. Any small difference between two sects, no
> > matter
> > how trivial, is grist for the mill. There is no room for tolerance
> > there. When you truly believe that the Supreme Mugwump of the
> > Universe
> > tells you that you are Right and the rest of the world is Wrong,
> > there
> > is no room for such trivial things as an opposing opinion.
> >
> > And while I take your point that Ann Coulter was set up with that
> > question, she could have provided an answer that was reasoned,
> low on
> > rhetoric, and that was less egocentric. She could have mentioned
> that
> > she hoped that everyone would become Christian so they could be
> > saved,
> > or that she thought a world that followed Christian morals would
> be a
> > safer, happier place or something. But I didn't get that from her
> > comments. I got that we should all be of her religion because she is
> > Right and we are Wrong. She deserves everything she's getting from
> > the
> > media right now, in my opinion.
> >
> > I'm just happy that I don't watch TV and so I get to miss out on all
> > this. I've still never heard her speak, and I'm happier for it.
> >
> > Paul
> >
> > Donovan Arnold wrote:
> > > Ann Coulter should say, "Religious conflict and war is good, and
> > that
> > > some people should not be saved."?
> > > I think this is rather absurd that people are making a big deal of
> > > this. Ann Coulter did not say Jews, Muslims, Hindus, Atheists, all
> > > other non-Christians were worthless, or inferior for their
> beliefs.
> > > She didn't say other shouldn't be allowed to practice their
> > religion.
> > > What she said was that the world would be better off if the entire
> > > world was Christian. Which from an empirical point of view, the
> > world
> > > would be better off if it was all one religion. Secondly, of
> course
> > > Christians want all others to be Christians, that is a fundamental
> > > belief of Christians that only Christians can be saved. It is
> > also the
> > > belief of many religions that their religion is the better, and/or
> > > only true religion. I am Catholic, the largest and most diverse
> > church
> > > in the world, and our creed specifically states that the Holy
> Roman
> > > Catholic Church is the "One and Only True Church".
> > > If she said all Jews and non-Christians should die, and only
> > > Christians are deserving of rights, that would be outrageous.
> > But to
> > > expect Ann Coulter's statements to say the opposite is true; the
> > world
> > > is better off if it has religious conflict and we should want
> > others
> > > to suffer eternal damnation, is suppose to be a more of an
> > acceptable
> > > statement?
> > > I think she was kind of set up with that question. It didn't
> matter
> > > which way she answered.
> > > Best,
> > > Donovan
> > >
> > > */Ted Moffett /* wrote:
> > >
> > > All-
> > > Ann Coulter's books sell big time... She's laughing all the way to
> > > the bank. Carl Westberg is right on the money (no pun intended)
> > > about Coulter being "pure show business." The more outrageous her
> > > comments, the more publicity. It's so obvious she's deliberately
> > > aiming to upset people with extreme political incorrectness.
> > > What is disturbing is that many people really believe what she
> > > advocates. Millions do believe that the US would be better off if
> > > we were all Christians. Correct? What is more shocking than
> > > Coulter's comments, is that she is supported by a sizable fan
> > > base. She definitely speaks to a large percentage of the US public
> > > that admires her frank expression of views that they sympathize
> > with.
> > > She is merely a symptom of a much broader problem in US society.
> > > Ted Moffett
> > > On 10/12/07, *keely emerinemix*
> > > > wrote:
> > >
> > > This is the same Ann Coulter who dated Joseph Guccione,
> > > publisher of that paragon of Christian virtue, Penthouse
> > > magazine. Miz Coulter is a nutcase, and I think the orderlies
> > > need to find stronger straps.
> > >
> > > keely
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > From: privatejf32 at hotmail.com <mailto:privatejf32 at hotmail.com>
> > > To: joekc at adelphia.net <mailto:joekc at adelphia.net> ;
> > > vision2020 at moscow.com <mailto:vision2020 at moscow.com>
> > > Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2007 10:33:59 -0700
> > > Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Coulter's Dream - from CNN
> > >
> > >
> > > Ann Coulter is totally nuts! "Perfected"? "Fast Track"?
> > > What is that!!!!??? Who buys this stuff?
> > >
> > > J :]
> > >
> > >
> > > > Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2007 06:46:38 -0700
> > > > From: joekc at adelphia.net <mailto:joekc at adelphia.net>
> > > > To: vision2020 at moscow.com <mailto:vision2020 at moscow.com>
> > > > Subject: [Vision2020] Coulter's Dream - from CNN
> > > >
> > > > Conservative commentator and best-selling author Ann
> > > Coulter may find herself in the midst of a controversy for
> > > comments Monday suggesting America would be better if
> > > everyone was Christian.
> > > >
> > > > Asked by CNBC host Donny Deutsch what the U.S. looks like
> > > in her dreams, Coulter said it would look like the
> > > Republican National Convention in 2004
> > > >
> > > > "People were happy," she said, according to a transcript
> > > provided to CNN by CNBC. "They're Christian. They're
> > > tolerant. They defend America."
> > > >
> > > > When Deutsch responded, "It would be better if we were
> > > all Christian?" Coulter said "Yeah."
> > > >
> > > > Deutsch, himself Jewish, continued to press Coulter on
> > > her remarks, asking, "We should just throw Judaism away
> > > and we should all be Christians then?"
> > > >
> > > > "Yeah," Coulter responded, adding "Well, it's a lot
> > > easier. It's kind of a fast track."
> > > >
> > > > "You can't possibly believe that," Deutsch responded.
> > > "You can't possibly. You're too educated."
> > > >
> > > > "Do you know what Christianity is?" Coulter replied.
> > > "See, we believe your religion, but you have to obey. We
> > > have the fast track program."
> > > >
> > > > Later in the interview Deutsch asked Coulter if she
> > > doesn't want any Jews in the world, Coulter responded,
> > > "No, we think — we just want Jews to be perfected, as they
> > > say."
> > > >
> > > > "Wow, you didn't really say that, did you," Deutsch said.
> > > >
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