[Vision2020] A Caution
J Ford
privatejf32 at hotmail.com
Wed Oct 10 12:00:09 PDT 2007
Okay, so now that you've got that off your chest, care to answer my question as stated?
The "Princess", Schwaller" and others of that church are doing "the constant
change ups to spew the same old, tired message" that you place erroneously on the shoulders of others. Another "kirker" or "kirker sympathizer" tactic, I know - distract while you run. But do give it a try, won't you?
Answer the question.
J :]
From: jampot at roadrunner.com
To: privatejf32 at hotmail.com; vision2020 at moscow.com
Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2007 10:17:24 -0700
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] A Caution
My dearest Ms. "Ford"
Its not so much the "factious names" as the constant
change ups to spew the same old, tired message as though there was a constant
new crop of malcontents, as well as the blatant opportunism in the timing to
take advantage of a fledgling congregations start up.
Perhaps you could enlighten me on excusing the poster who
hasn't the courage to use their own name what with you being an expert on the
subject and all?
g
----- Original Message -----
From:
J
Ford
To: vision2020 at moscow.com
Sent: Wednesday, October 10, 2007 7:50
AM
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] A Caution
And you'd excuse the "sportzboysfromthehood", Princess T, G
Schwalling, etc. for posting using factious names - HOW?!
J
:]
From: jampot at roadrunner.com
To: christs.avengers.bowness.alta at gmail.com;
vision2020 at moscow.com
Date:
Tue, 9 Oct 2007 17:58:47 -0700
CC: askreallife at reallifeministries.com
Subject:
Re: [Vision2020] A Caution
Christ requires earthly avengers? And from
Canada no less. Kind of makes me wonder and NOT in the way that "Giselle"
and the "avengers" would probably prefer. I'd love to hear from a real
representative of "the fastest growing church in America" and have them
explain the effectiveness of blowing into town and having anonymous shills
attempt to tear down their competitors ministries. Is that how you've
managed to grow at such a prodigious rate? Or, as is far more likely to be
the case, do we have some of the same old, same old trying yet again to
duplicitously further their little agenda. I'm guessing the latter. Do you
guys really think that coming up with endless pseudonyms and fictitious
organizations is fooling anyone? sadly, I guess you must.
g
-----
Original Message -----
From:
Christ's
Avengers
To:
vision2020 at moscow.com
Cc:
askreallife at reallifeministries.com
Sent:
Tuesday, October 09, 2007 12:42 PM
Subject:
[Vision2020] A Caution
If
Giselle McCourt and the brothers and sisters at Real Life Ministries are
really serious about rooting out ungodly pastors, priests, ministers, etc,
they need to start with the specious, unordained pastor of the horribly
misnamed Christ Church of Moscow, Idaho, to wit, Douglas
Wilson.
Here are some links as
starters that will give them some insight into this driven, dishonest,
power-hungry, self-loving, conniver who dares to mock Jesus Christ by
pretending to be His Messenger.
A
thoroughly documented site by true Christians:
http://dougsplotch.com/
Another thoroughly documented
site, although by a non-believer, which never-the-less offers a wealth of
information:
http://www.tomandrodna.com/notonthepalouse/
Of
special interest on this site showing the ugly fruits of a ministry
hideously departed from the True Way of Jesus Christ:
http://www.tomandrodna.com/CR_2005_02027/
http://www.tomandrodna.com/CR%5F2005%5F0250Wight/
An
extremely revealing site from a Christ Church Apostate:
http://poohsthink.com/
Another well-documented
website:
http://federal-vision.blogspot.com/
Other websites of
interest:
http://cultists.blogspot.com/
http://cleaning-house.org/
http://ministrywatchman.com/?p=47
http://www.joshualetter.org/slavery/
Not to be ignored:
The archives of Vision 2020
where insightful comment can be found:
http://vision2020.moscow.com/passpage.asp?ArchiveType=new
http://vision2020.moscow.com/passpage.asp?ArchiveType=old
The letters of Keely
Emerine-Mix, Rose Huskey, Saundra Lund, J Ford, Michael Metzler, and other
referents found in those letters clearly expose the wayward
Wilson.
Christ's Avengers
Bowness,
Alberta, Canada
Some of our Watchwords from
Jesus Christ, Matt 7:15 – 20:
15
Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing but inwardly
are ravenous wolves. 16 You will know them by their
fruits. Are grapes gathered from thorns, or figs from
thistles? 17 In the same way, every good tree bears
good fruit, but the bad tree bears bad fruit. 18 A good
tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a bad tree bear good
fruit. 19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is
cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 Thus you will
know them by their fruits.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Amen!
Giselle's thoughts on this are much appreciated,
and I sincerely hope they touch the hearts of those who have been
shattered by "pastors" who would usurp the autonomy of the believer in
her/his relationship with Jesus Christ. The Gospel is a message of
reconciliation, liberation, grace, forgiveness, unbridled love and
humility. It is not a means by which to insinuate oneself into the
lives and consciences of others. And while community and fellowship
are vital for the spiritual health of the believer, the intimate
relationship of a man or woman to his or her Savior is the province of
their Spirit-informed conscience, not a tool to further the controlling,
aggressive and manipulative agenda of anyone who sees himself as the top
rung of a hierarchy the Gospel intends to dismantle.
If I were
confronted with the message and behavior of the leadership at Christ
Church and didn't know Jesus Christ, I would run away as fast as I
could. It's not a picture of a savior I'd want to have anything to
do with. But I do know Jesus, and so I choose to stand toe-to-toe in
opposition to anyone who would pervert the Gospel and misrepresent the One
to whom I owe my very heart and soul. I'm grateful for
Giselle's voice and pray it will reach those who've been hurt by the
tsunami of bigotry and pride that is Kirk
leadership.
keely
Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2007 09:46:42 -0700
From: giselle.wilson.mccourt at gmail.com
To:
vision2020 at moscow.com
Subject:
[Vision2020] A Caution
Dear Friends in Christ and
Neighbors of Goodwill,
This
short message is addressed to those of you from other area churches who
attended the Launch Service of Real Life Ministries last Sunday and to
those that might like to attend further services in order to see if Real
Ministries could become the church of your choice.
There are certain pastors in
this area who look upon their congregations as their personal
property. They covetously regard members of their
congregations as chattel to be used as they decree rather than as souls
to be lovingly guided into the arms of Our Lord Jesus Christ, and into
the way of righteousness, goodwill, and eternal salvation.
These unholy pastors often
resort to dire and to unchristian measures to either persuade or to
force members to remain shackled in the ungodly, grasping jaws of their
spurious ministries. Hence, I repeat the following
from my first message (also appended). (If you
know any trapped and struggling Christians caught in such circumstances,
please, please help them by forwarding this message.
The choice you
make of the Christian church to attend is a matter between you and God,
only. You do not need to ask or receive anyone's
permission to change Christian churches, nor do you owe anyone notice or
an explanation if you do. It is a decision between
you and God alone. If your pastor or members of your
church attempt to coerce or to wheedle you in any way to remain in the
grasp of their church – persistent pressure, guilt, promises, visits,
telephone calls, threats, spying, extortive tactics, feigned sweetness,
feigned concern for your soul, etc, – you are not in a church which
preaches the True Teachings of The Lord Jesus Christ and who sincerely
loves The Lord Jesus Christ. If any of the above
unchristian tactics has been applied or is applied to you please let the
good folks at Real Life Ministries know: askreallife at reallifeministries.com
Reminder:
Great news! The fastest growing church
in America, Real Life Ministries, is now in Latah County.
http://www.reallifeministries.com/index.php
http://moscowreallife.com/home.html
Come, join, and start
to be united with the community and God through Our Lord Jesus
Christ.
Real Life
Services
Sunday, October, 7th 9:00
and 11:00 AM, 3148 Tomer Rd.
Directions:
From
Moscow: Travel east on Highway 8.
Turn right onto Carmichael Road. Turn left
onto Tomer Road. Continue until you reach Palouse
Hills Christian School.
From
Troy: Travel west on Highway 8.
Turn left onto Lenville Road. Turn right onto
Tomer Road . Continue until you reach Palouse Hills
Christian School.
Your neighbor and friend
in Our Lord Jesus Christ,
Giselle
McCourt
This message has neither
been officially approved nor sent by the Boards of Directors of Real
Life Ministries, Inc., Real Life Ministries, Ltd., Real Life Ministries,
Cie. nor any member thereof.
************************************************************
Previous
Message
Dear Neighbors and
Friends in Our Lord Jesus Christ,
Please pass this
message on to anyone it might benefit.
Regardless of the
church you now attend, for the sake of your own eternal
salvation in Our Lord Jesus Christ, please take some time to consider
very carefully in your heart of hearts the following questions.
Does your pastor unite the
community or does your pastor divide it?
Does your pastor respect
everyone equally or does your pastor have favorites amongst your
congregation?
Does your pastor disdain
or ignore the worth of any or many of God's children?
Does your pastor display
way too much self-love?
Is your pastor much too
fond of rich foods, fine wines, and other voluptuary pleasures?
Is your pastor ever
vindictive, spiteful, punitive, or dishonest especially towards those
with whom your pastor disagrees or those who have chosen in God's name
to leave the clutches of his ministry?
Would you trust your
pastor with your purse? With your real estate
agent? With your wife?
Does your pastor hold
wacko ideas like the antebellum slaves were a happy lot and lived in
wonderful harmony with their masters?
At your pastor's rigid
insistence is your church music full of dark, chilling, mournful words
and music rather than raising a "Joyful noise unto the Lord" as
commanded by the bible? Psalms 100
Has your pastor engineered
the purchase land for a new church that is not only too small for a
church and cemetery, but even too small for a moderately sized
church? Did your pastor pay about twice the market
value for the land? Is that land now known as
"------'s Folly?"
Does your pastor demand,
coerce, or wheedle so much tithe that it hurts your ability to give what
they need and they deserve to your family and community?
Have you been asked to sacrifice heavily and to tithe in God's
name so that your pastor can pursue his ambitious, mostly personal
goals?
Does your pastor's money
management problems and love of his pet projects that serve him more
than God often lead to calls for further tithing and
sacrifices? Does your pastor try to con and to
manipulate you by insinuating that the amount of your tithe is directly
proportional to your love of Our Lord Jesus Christ, champion of the
poor? Matthew 19:16 - 30, Matthew 25:31 - 46
Does your pastor pack the
various parts of his ministry's payroll with overpaid relatives and
kowtowing friends and their relatives, thus putting even more stress on
church finances and leading to further demands for tithes?
Does your pastor look at
new members more as a source of tithes and straw and mud with which to
build his empire, rather than as souls to guide into the loving arms of
Our Lord Jesus Christ?
Does your church have a
hidden missing funds problem? If so, is it possible that some of
those funds have disappeared into off-shore accounts of which your
pastor is the sole signatory?
Does your pastor flout the
civil law? Romans 13:1 – 7
Does your pastor ever
direct members of your church to perform illegal or sinful activities or
to ignore illegal or sinful activities done by church members?
Does your pastor ever
practice flagrant dishonesty in the name of The Lord or in claiming to
do the work of The Lord? Is this something Jesus
would do?
Are your pastor's
theological views so far out that were recently rejected by over 96% of
a very large body of his fellow Reformed Disciples that carefully
examined them?
When vehemently defending
his version of The Word of God as the only "correct one," does your
pastor sometimes appear to be mentally disturbed?
Is your pastor more
interested in enriching himself and his family then your pastor is in
exhibiting himself as shining, living example of the Life and Teachings
of Jesus Christ, especially doing this by showing agape towards all,
showing humility, showing disdain for wealth and its trappings, and
showing great concern and charity for all the poor and
unfortunate? Matthew 19:16 - 30
Does your pastor have a
double standard when it comes to adultery? When it
comes to rape and adultery in church schools?
Has your pastor encouraged
divorces when it would benefit him in a very personal way, or encouraged
divorces with unchristian vindictiveness to inflict great pain and
sorrow upon certain critics of his actions and claimed beliefs?
Does your pastor ever
appear to place himself on an equal footing or above God?
Does your pastor place
himself as a barrier between you and God? Does your pastor
blasphemously style himself/herself as a necessary conduit between you
and God?
Does your pastor blame
others for his shortcomings?
After having made a
serious mistake in judgment does your pastor own up to it, or does your
pastor sometimes claim he/she has a secret plan and the congregation
must "trust" him/her that eventually all will be right?
Does your pastor keep
important church information secret from not only the congregation, but
from some of the elders and deacons too?
Does your pastor
unchristianly operate your church like a secret society in the community
rather than like the open arms of Our Lord Jesus Christ?
Has your pastor imported
child molesters into the community? If so, is it
possible that your pastor knew something of their particular sinful
proclivities beforehand, but imported them anyway?
Has your pastor written a
letter supporting leniency for a convicted child molester, one who did
dreadful, despicable things to many different children, who attended one
of the ministry's schools, and one who defiled the children of the
church family with whom he boarded? If so, was
that letter hypocritically contrary to your pastor's past preaching, and
most important, blasphemously contrary to the requirements of The Word
of God?
Does your business or
relationships with your neighbors suffer because your pastor has – with
his outré views, unchristian actions, and harsh, in your face,
unchristian polemics – caused many of the community to shun your
business or avoid yourself and your family?
Does your pastor use
divisive tactics and polemics to persuade you from listening to the
words of your neighbors and dividing you from them?
Does the majority of your
community regard your pastor as a crook, clown, or perhaps even an
anti-Christ?
Does your pastor ever
bring to mind the following passage from Matthew 7:15 - 20?
15
Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing but
inwardly are ravenous wolves.
16 You
will know them by their fruits. Are grapes gathered
from thorns, or figs from thistles?
17 In
the same way, every good tree bears good fruit, but the bad tree bears
bad fruit.
18 A
good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a bad tree bear good fruit.
19
Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the
fire.
20 Thus you will know them by their fruits.
Does your pastor make up
insulting, abusive names for those that question his bizarre views and
actions? Does your pastor belittle his critics and
assassinate their characters or take other vindictive, punitive measures
rather than act like Our Loving Lord Jesus would?
Matthew 5:38 - 48
Does your pastor attempt
to coerce and to wheedle your continuing church membership rather than
trust in your faith in God and God-given conscience to guide you to make
the right choice of church to attend?***
Does any answer to any
of the above questions about your pastor trouble you?
Does any answer trouble you especially considered in the light of
the Teachings of The Lord Jesus Christ and your God-given
conscience? If so, then perhaps it is time for the
sake of your immortal soul to consider moving to a true church of Our
Lord Jesus Christ in God, and away from a church that will only lead you
away from the path of righteousness, goodwill, and eternal
salvation.
Great
news! The fastest growing church in America,
Real Life Ministries, is coming to Latah County.
http://www.reallifeministries.com/index.php
http://moscowreallife.com/home.html
Come, join, and start to
be united with the community and God through Our Lord Jesus Christ.
Real Life Launch
Services
Sunday, October, 7th
9:00 and 11:00 AM, 3148 Tomer Rd.
Directions:
From Moscow:
Travel east on Highway 8. Turn
right onto Carmichael Road. Turn left onto Tomer
Road. Continue until you reach Palouse Hills
Christian School.
From
Troy: Travel west on Highway 8.
Turn left onto Lenville Road. Turn right onto
Tomer Road . Continue until you reach Palouse Hills
Christian School.
I hope to see you
there.
Your neighbor and friend
in Our Lord Jesus Christ,
Giselle McCourt
***The choice you make of
the Christian church to attend is a matter between you and God,
only. You do not need to ask or receive anyone's
permission to change Christian churches, nor do you owe anyone notice or
an explanation if you do. It is a decision between
you and God alone. If your pastor or members of your
church attempt to coerce or to wheedle you in any way to remain in the
grasp of their church – persistent pressure, guilt, promises, visits,
telephone calls, threats, spying, extortive tactics, feigned sweetness,
feigned concern for your soul, etc, – you are not in a church which
preaches the True Teachings of The Lord Jesus Christ and who sincerely
loves The Lord Jesus Christ. If any of the above
unchristian tactics has been applied or is applied to you please let the
good folks at Real Life Ministries know: askreallife at reallifeministries.com
This message has neither
been officially approved nor sent by the Boards of Directors of Real
Life Ministries, Inc., Real Life Ministries, Ltd., Real Life Ministries,
Cie. nor any member thereof.
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