[Vision2020] Are you enabling extremism?

[pkraut at moscow.com]

Does it help you to understand if they are both listed as terriorists 
groups by the FBI? 


> Kai et. al.
> 
> I think your focus on environmental terrorism is off the main topic of 
this
> thread, but I will pursue your line of reasoning just a bit, before 
asking
> you to address my point, made earlier in this thread, that was on topic.
> 
> I am asking for your documentation of deaths committed by environmental
> groups in "terrorist" attacks, because I question the veracity of this 
claim
> that you made.  The ALF is not an environmental group.  The Earth 
Liberation
> Front is an environmental group.
> 
> I have not found any documentation that the Earth Liberation Front has
> killed anyone in a terrorist attack.
> 
> So I am still asking for your documentation....Given you made the claim, 
you
> should have an example at hand.  Asking someone else to prove your point
> with evidence seems rather lame.
> 
> If you cannot provide it, then just say you cannot provide it...You may 
have
> good evidence to support your claim.  Please offer it.
> 
> However, if you really want a logical and fact based dialog on the 
critical
> focus of this thread, clearly stated by Paul when he started this thread,
> regarding religious belief promoting extremism, then respond to my post
> where I raise the specific example of people who promote the idea that 
the
> Bible or the Koran is the literal absolute word of the creator of the
> universe, with very questionable evidence this is true, and act on this
> belief in extreme ways.  I can list numerous examples of those who insist
> the Bible or the Koran contains the literal word of the creator of the
> universe, and use this belief to justify numerous ethical harms: 
oppression
> of women, prejudice against gays, corporal punishment of children, human
> rights violating applications of the death penalty, to name a few.
> 
> It seems you are trying to "bait and switch" in this thread, by focusing 
on
> what you call "environmental terrorism," without being willing to 
document
> your implication that deaths occurred in such attacks, while ignoring my
> point about terrorism resulting in deaths committed by religious 
extremists
> who use their absolute belief in the literal word of God as contained in 
the
> Bible or Koran, as justification.
> 
> I will document my claim that people who insist the Bible or the Koran is
> the literal word of the creator of the universe, sometimes follow this
> belief resulting in extreme terrorist acts... Or have you forgotten 9/11?
> 
> Ted Moffett
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On 10/1/07, Kai Eiselein, editor <editor at lataheagle.com> wrote:
> >
> >  Ted,
> > I can't believe you've never heard of the Animal Liberation Front 
(ALF) or
> > the Earth Liberation Front (ELF), both of which engage in attacks 
against
> > entities they disagree with.  Perhaps you've forgotten the string of 
arsons
> > that took place from the 90's and into 2001 in Oregon and Washington in
> > which the ELF claimed responsibility? Or the arrests in 2006 of several
> > members of ELF in connection with those arsons? Anyone who is willing 
to
> > torch a building is willing to kill anyone inside.
> > I must have struck a nerve, since you are making demands rather than
> > engaging in debate. From your posts about global warming, typhoons and 
such,
> > I know you are perfectly capable of finding information on the web. 
Quit
> > feigning ignorance/stupidity, it doesn't become you.
> > I'll not waste my time digging up information that has been well
> > publicized and is readily available  just because you demand it.
> > Debate is the art of point-counter point, Ted. Not demand, counter 
demand.
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > *From:* Ted Moffett <starbliss at gmail.com>
> > *To:* Kai Eiselein, editor <editor at lataheagle.com>
> > *Cc:* Andreas Schou <ophite at gmail.com> ; Paul 
Rumelhart<godshatter at yahoo.com>;
> > Vision2020 <vision2020 at moscow.com>
> > *Sent:* Monday, October 01, 2007 12:19 PM
> > *Subject:* Re: [Vision2020] Are you enabling extremism?
> >
> >
> >
> >  Kai et. al.
> >
> > Will you please offer examples of what you call "eco-terrorism," 
engaged
> > in by what you described as "on the left are extremist environmental
> > groups," that have resulted in deliberately caused deaths by "fanatics
> > willing to kill," as you phrased it, such as a terrorist bombing (a 
road
> > side IED, or a car bomb, truck bomb, or bombing of a train or bus, 
etc.) of
> > civilians would inflict?  This is a very serious charge, that should 
not be
> > made casually..  I am not saying there are not examples of this, just 
asking
> > you to provide well founded empirical documentation.  Please provide 
the
> > name of the environmental group, document their affiliation with what 
you
> > termed "the left" (please explain how you define "the left," and why
> > they represent "the left," rather than just "left field"), and the 
date and
> > details of the terrorist attack.
> >
> > Ted Moffett
> > ----
> > Kai wrote:
> >
> >
> > >  Most notably on the left are
> > > extremist environmental groups that engage in eco-terrorism. Using
> > > Dawkins
> > > line of reasoning, anyone who is environmentaly friendly could be 
seen
> > > as
> > > supportive of eco-terrorism.
> > > Any belief, taken too far, can result in fanatical zealots willing to
> > > kill
> > > anyone opposed to their viewpoint.
> > >
> >
> 




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