[Vision2020] Affordable Housing
J Ford
privatejf32 at hotmail.com
Thu Nov 1 12:56:15 PDT 2007
They don't want to operate at a loss, either, fella!
Did you happen to see what happened to the CEO of Merrill/Lynch this week? He's out due to his taking a gamble on the housing industry and LOOSING big time - to the tune of BILLIONS of dollars. Not something a bank is knowingly going to go into nor wish to stay in if they can help it. So taking a white elephant and un-loading it to the first guy with a buck is not going to cut it. They want profit, not just to get rid of things.
And this is NOT affordable housing...it's a "garage sale" mentality that no one wants. The person buying into such a house is more encumbered than you realize when they get into such a house. It is NOT affordable to anyone.
J :]
From: jampot at roadrunner.com
To: privatejf32 at hotmail.com; vision2020 at moscow.com
Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2007 07:37:40 -0700
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Affordable Housing
Perhaps you or some other "progressive" would like to
explain the error in my thinking? Goodness knows I'm not a property/finance
expert but, it seems obvious that banks, and more importantly their shareholders
don't need or want liabilities ("white elephants") cluttering up the P&L
statements. As the houses stagnate on the market the price will drop until it
becomes attractive to someone. The very definition of affordable housing.
g
----- Original Message -----
From:
J
Ford
To: vision2020 at moscow.com
Sent: Thursday, November 01, 2007 6:46
AM
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Affordable
Housing
Yeah - now THERE's some progressive thinking going
on!
"Wouldn't that be the market sorting it self out?
Doesn't one mans (or banks) "desperate to unload white elephant"
becomes another mans affordable housing?" gc
J
:]
From: jampot at roadrunner.com
To: privatejf32 at hotmail.com; the_ivies3 at yahoo.com; vision2020 at moscow.com
Subject:
Re: [Vision2020] Affordable Housing
Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2007 06:39:03
-0700
"I believe sooner or later, we will see a bunch of
houses sitting empty with banks desperate to unload a while
elephant."
Wouldn't that be the market sorting it self out?
Doesn't one mans (or banks) "desperate to unload white elephant"
becomes another mans affordable housing?
g
-----
Original Message -----
From:
J
Ford
To:
Tom
Ivie ; vision2020 at moscow.com
Sent:
Thursday, November 01, 2007 6:15 AM
Subject:
Re: [Vision2020] Affordable Housing
The thing is, communities around us are selling houses at
half to one quarter the prices seen in Moscow and renting for far less
than Moscow. The community and developers (yes, they set the price
of the houses they build) need to get together and become educated in what
really sells, how it sells and why it sells. The housing in Moscow
is just ridiculous when you consider other towns, with larger populations,
are seeing houses going for so much less. I think for a town like
ours to have SO many developments with SO many houses in each one is just
short-sighted or no-sighted and I believe sooner or later, we will see a
bunch of houses sitting empty with banks desperate to unload a while
elephant.
I also believe that if Moscow continues to rely on UI or
WSU to be main-stayers in the employment fields, we will see a major
decline not only in students coming to the area but people staying
here. If the current plans to move the UI colleges to other parts of
the state holds true, it will especially hurt us if we don't do something
about attracting other types of industry to this area.
Its all fine
and well that "New Cities" was accepted by Moscow to be the new vision of
things to come, but nothing is going to really pick the area up
economically if we can't be more supportive in developing business
opportunities rather than housing developments. Can't sell what
people can't pay for due to lack of jobs.
Nor do we need to
continue to allow some groups in Moscow to become/remain tax-exempt but
owning HUGE amounts of commercial properties, yet
service-demanding.
J :]
Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2007 20:58:17 -0700
From:
the_ivies3 at yahoo.com
To: vision2020 at moscow.com
Subject: Re:
[Vision2020] Affordable Housing
Hi Donovan,
I agree with you on this one and as you point out, this was a
problem WAY before our current city council. However, there is
also another element to affordable housing. What I am talking
about is entry level starter homes. Not to blame the developers,
because I don't know that it is their fault, but the cost of land is not
affordable, this gets passed onto the homebuyer. It is probably a
matter of economics that the developers or builders build $200,000 on up
homes on the property. I don't blame them for wanting to get the
most money out of their investment. The fact is that salaries have
not gone up at even close to the same rate that housing prices
did. There has been a lot of purchasing of homes done in a manner
of creative financing that neither you or I could even try, but those
buying strategies have caused some tapering off in the housing market as
a direct or indirect result. Does that higher market affect affordable
housing? I think it might. But I don't know how to explain
myself on it. Maybe someone can takeover from here and explain if
I am onto something. And the same is true if I am completely
wrong. I don't mind learning something new.
Donovan
Arnold <donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com> wrote:
Joe,
While I certainly am not a trained expert, I have had extensive
experience trying to find affordable housing in Moscow and worked with
many others also trying to afford decent housing.
When I was in the ASUI Senate, one of my living groups was Family
Housing. That caused me to investigate the situation because
of the frequent and prevailing problems these families had trying
to find adequate housing in the Moscow region.
I also worked with people with disabilities and could not by law
work more than a few hours each week or face losing their medical care
which was paramount for their survival.
In my own personal quest for housing, I also had trouble finding
anything decent and affordable in Moscow.
Here is why I think finding decent housing is unaffordable in
Moscow for many people;
Income restriction. If a couple or two adults make more than
$24,000 gross, combined, they do not qualify for low income housing.
If they do, their rent is still usually about $500-$650 a month plus
utilities. So two people making $24,000, net $20,000, must spend
about $7000 on housing and utilities. Giving them only $6500 a piece
to live on for the whole year, not a fun situation to be in!
Another encroachment is the education exclusion for low income
housing. You cannot be a full time student at UI and legally live in
most low income housing units. Undergraduate students taking more
than 8 credits, or graduate students taking more than 6 do
not qualify for most of the low income housing units in Moscow.
Another person that doesn't qualify is a student trying to get his or
her GED. If they are taking classes to get a GED, you cannot get into
low income housing BECAUSE you are full time student.
Market rate based low income housing assistance is also a
problem in Moscow. That is where the federal government simply
discounts housing units by about 20% below the market rate. For
example, a housing unit that is a two bedroom, one bath unit on the
open market in Moscow would be about $625. So the rate is reduced
only to about $525 a month. Still unaffordable because Moscow's
housing market is so tight, you cannot get the rate to be affordable
for many Moscow residents.
Next, you also have rent based rent. These units are
limited, hard to get into, and generally places you don't want to
live unless you have absolutely not other choice.
Unless you are on Section 8, which is hard to get into and
find a place, on want to live in a tiny cramped noisy studio
apartment, you are pretty much screwed out of a decent
affordable housing unit in Moscow.
I would also like to point out, that the problem with Moscow
housing is that there simply is not enough housing for the population.
Moscow has one of the highest per cap. unit in the state, over
21,000 people for just 8,000 units. That drives the
rent way up.
The people, that I think have the hardest time, are those that
make between $18,000 and $24,000 a year. Because at that rate, you
don't qualify for any type of government assistance, not housing, not
food stamps,not medical care, and very limited
education assistance if any. $18,000-$24,000 is not enough
to pay for housing, food, medical care, transportation, and other
basic needs in Moscow when you have no assistance.
Because of rules and restrictions on low income housing, many low
income housing units sit empty while many who need those housing units
are not allowed in.
My suggestion would be to either change the rules so low income
housing units get filled up, or build so much housing that the prices
fall from competition.
Best,
Donovan
Joe Campbell <joekc at adelphia.net>
wrote:
In
her recent letter to the editor, Shelley Bennett writes this about
development:
"... in order to get companies to locate in
Moscow, we also need affordable
housing options and support
services that make living here affordable. The
actions of the
current mayor and many members of the City Council have
done
everything they can over the course of the last few years to make
sure
we do not have affordable housing options."
I don't
know much about affordable housing. What I do know, I learned from
Aaron Ament, who is a City Council member, and Bob Stout, who
served
longer on City Council than Tom Lamar. Bob was in favor
of affordable housing,
it was a key issue in his campaign two
years ago. Aaron, too, is in favor of
affordable housing. I have
little reason to believe that Lamar, or Linda Paul,
or Evan
Holmes would not be in favor of affordable housing.
I have
two questions.
Is what Bennett says true? Has the council
made affordable housing options worse?
Doesn't affordable
housing begin at the point of development?
I think so. I
think that the developer has a lot more control over costs
than
any city council, especially if we're restricting government in the
way
that Jeff thinks we should. The difference in the cost of a
single house with
city fees vs. without them is negligible, I
imagine.
But maybe there is something I'm
missing.
Best,
Joe
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