[Vision2020] Affordable Housing

J Ford privatejf32 at hotmail.com
Thu Nov 1 12:56:15 PDT 2007


They don't want to operate at a loss, either, fella!

Did you happen to see what happened to the CEO of Merrill/Lynch this week?  He's out due to his taking a gamble on the housing industry and LOOSING big time - to the tune of BILLIONS of dollars.  Not something a bank is knowingly going to go into nor wish to stay in if they can help it.  So taking a white elephant and un-loading it to the first guy with a buck is not going to cut it.  They want profit, not just to get rid of things.

And this is NOT affordable housing...it's a "garage sale" mentality that no one wants.  The person buying into such a house is more encumbered than you realize when they get into such a house.  It is NOT affordable to anyone.

J  :]


From: jampot at roadrunner.com
To: privatejf32 at hotmail.com; vision2020 at moscow.com
Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2007 07:37:40 -0700
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Affordable Housing










Perhaps you or some other "progressive" would like to 
explain the error in my thinking? Goodness knows I'm not a property/finance 
expert but, it seems obvious that banks, and more importantly their shareholders 
don't need or want liabilities ("white elephants") cluttering up the P&L 
statements. As the houses stagnate on the market the price will drop until it 
becomes attractive to someone. The very definition of affordable housing. 

 
g

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: 
  J 
  Ford 
  To: vision2020 at moscow.com 
  Sent: Thursday, November 01, 2007 6:46 
  AM
  Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Affordable 
  Housing
  
Yeah - now THERE's some progressive thinking going 
  on!

"Wouldn't that be the market sorting it self out? 
  Doesn't one mans (or banks) "desperate to unload white elephant" 
  becomes another mans affordable housing?"  gc

J 
  :]



  
    
    From: jampot at roadrunner.com
To: privatejf32 at hotmail.com; the_ivies3 at yahoo.com; vision2020 at moscow.com
Subject: 
    Re: [Vision2020] Affordable Housing
Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2007 06:39:03 
    -0700


    "I believe sooner or later, we will see a bunch of 
    houses sitting empty with banks desperate to unload a while 
    elephant."

    Wouldn't that be the market sorting it self out? 
    Doesn't one mans (or banks) "desperate to unload white elephant" 
    becomes another mans affordable housing?
     
    g
    
      ----- 
      Original Message ----- 
      From: 
      J 
      Ford 
      To: 
      Tom 
      Ivie ; vision2020 at moscow.com 
      Sent: 
      Thursday, November 01, 2007 6:15 AM
      Subject: 
      Re: [Vision2020] Affordable Housing
      
The thing is, communities around us are selling houses at 
      half to one quarter the prices seen in Moscow and renting for far less 
      than Moscow.  The community and developers (yes, they set the price 
      of the houses they build) need to get together and become educated in what 
      really sells, how it sells and why it sells.  The housing in Moscow 
      is just ridiculous when you consider other towns, with larger populations, 
      are seeing houses going for so much less.  I think for a town like 
      ours to have SO many developments with SO many houses in each one is just 
      short-sighted or no-sighted and I believe sooner or later, we will see a 
      bunch of houses sitting empty with banks desperate to unload a while 
      elephant.

I also believe that if Moscow continues to rely on UI or 
      WSU to be main-stayers in the employment fields, we will see a major 
      decline not only in students coming to the area but people staying 
      here.  If the current plans to move the UI colleges to other parts of 
      the state holds true, it will especially hurt us if we don't do something 
      about attracting other types of industry to this area.

Its all fine 
      and well that "New Cities" was accepted by Moscow to be the new vision of 
      things to come, but nothing is going to really pick the area up 
      economically if we can't be more supportive in developing business 
      opportunities rather than housing developments.  Can't sell what 
      people can't pay for due to lack of jobs.

Nor do we need to 
      continue to allow some groups in Moscow to become/remain tax-exempt but 
      owning HUGE amounts of commercial properties, yet 
      service-demanding.

J :]



      
        
        Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2007 20:58:17 -0700
From: 
        the_ivies3 at yahoo.com
To: vision2020 at moscow.com
Subject: Re: 
        [Vision2020] Affordable Housing


        Hi Donovan,
        I agree with you on this one and as you point out, this was a 
        problem WAY before our current city council.  However, there is 
        also another element to affordable housing.  What I am talking 
        about is entry level starter homes.  Not to blame the developers, 
        because I don't know that it is their fault, but the cost of land is not 
        affordable, this gets passed onto the homebuyer.  It is probably a 
        matter of economics that the developers or builders build $200,000 on up 
        homes on the property.  I don't blame them for wanting to get the 
        most money out of their investment.  The fact is that salaries have 
        not gone up at even close to the same rate that housing prices 
        did.  There has been a lot of purchasing of homes done in a manner 
        of creative financing that neither you or I could even try, but those 
        buying strategies have caused some tapering off in the housing market as 
        a direct or indirect result. Does that higher market affect affordable 
        housing?  I think it might.  But I don't know how to explain 
        myself on it.  Maybe someone can takeover from here and explain if 
        I am onto something.  And the same is true if I am completely 
        wrong.  I don't mind learning something new.

Donovan 
        Arnold <donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com> wrote:
        
          Joe,
           
          While I certainly am not a trained expert, I have had extensive 
          experience trying to find affordable housing in Moscow and worked with 
          many others also trying to afford decent housing. 
           
          When I was in the ASUI Senate, one of my living groups was Family 
          Housing. That caused me to investigate the situation because 
          of the frequent and prevailing problems these families had trying 
          to find adequate housing in the Moscow region. 
           
          I also worked with people with disabilities and could not by law 
          work more than a few hours each week or face losing their medical care 
          which was paramount for their survival. 
           
          In my own personal quest for housing, I also had trouble finding 
          anything decent and affordable in Moscow. 
           
          Here is why I think finding decent housing is unaffordable in 
          Moscow for many people;
           
          Income restriction. If a couple or two adults make more than 
          $24,000 gross, combined, they do not qualify for low income housing. 
          If they do, their rent is still usually about $500-$650 a month plus 
          utilities. So two people making $24,000, net $20,000, must spend 
          about $7000 on housing and utilities. Giving them only $6500 a piece 
          to live on for the whole year, not a fun situation to be in! 
           
          Another encroachment is the education exclusion for low income 
          housing. You cannot be a full time student at UI and legally live in 
          most low income housing units. Undergraduate students taking more 
          than 8 credits, or graduate students taking more than 6 do 
          not qualify for most of the low income housing units in Moscow. 
          Another person that doesn't qualify is a student trying to get his or 
          her GED. If they are taking classes to get a GED, you cannot get into 
          low income housing BECAUSE you are full time student. 
           
          Market rate based low income housing assistance is also a 
          problem in Moscow. That is where the federal government simply 
          discounts housing units by about 20% below the market rate. For 
          example, a housing unit that is a two bedroom, one bath unit on the 
          open market in Moscow would be about $625. So the rate is reduced 
          only to about $525 a month. Still unaffordable because Moscow's 
          housing market is so tight, you cannot get the rate to be affordable 
          for many Moscow residents. 
           
          Next, you also have rent based rent. These units are 
          limited, hard to get into, and generally places you don't want to 
          live unless you have absolutely not other choice. 
          Unless you are on Section 8, which is hard to get into and 
          find a place, on want to live in a tiny cramped noisy studio 
          apartment, you are pretty much screwed out of a decent 
          affordable housing unit in Moscow. 
           
          I would also like to point out, that the problem with Moscow 
          housing is that there simply is not enough housing for the population. 
          Moscow has one of the highest per cap. unit in the state, over 
          21,000 people for just 8,000 units. That drives the 
          rent way up. 
           
          The people, that I think have the hardest time, are those that 
          make between $18,000 and $24,000 a year. Because at that rate, you 
          don't qualify for any type of government assistance, not housing, not 
          food stamps,not medical care, and very limited 
           education assistance if any. $18,000-$24,000 is not enough 
          to pay for housing, food, medical care, transportation, and other 
          basic needs in Moscow when you have no assistance. 
           
           
          Because of rules and restrictions on low income housing, many low 
          income housing units sit empty while many who need those housing units 
          are not allowed in.
           
          My suggestion would be to either change the rules so low income 
          housing units get filled up, or build so much housing that the prices 
          fall from competition. 
           
          Best,
           
          Donovan
           
           
           
           
           
          

Joe Campbell <joekc at adelphia.net> 
          wrote:
          In 
            her recent letter to the editor, Shelley Bennett writes this about 
            development:

"... in order to get companies to locate in 
            Moscow, we also need affordable 
housing options and support 
            services that make living here affordable. The 
actions of the 
            current mayor and many members of the City Council have 
done 
            everything they can over the course of the last few years to make 
            sure 
we do not have affordable housing options."

I don't 
            know much about affordable housing. What I do know, I learned from 
            
Aaron Ament, who is a City Council member, and Bob Stout, who 
            served 
longer on City Council than Tom Lamar. Bob was in favor 
            of affordable housing, 
it was a key issue in his campaign two 
            years ago. Aaron, too, is in favor of 
affordable housing. I have 
            little reason to believe that Lamar, or Linda Paul, 
or Evan 
            Holmes would not be in favor of affordable housing.

I have 
            two questions.

Is what Bennett says true? Has the council 
            made affordable housing options worse?

Doesn't affordable 
            housing begin at the point of development? 

I think so. I 
            think that the developer has a lot more control over costs 
than 
            any city council, especially if we're restricting government in the 
            way 
that Jeff thinks we should. The difference in the cost of a 
            single house with 
city fees vs. without them is negligible, I 
            imagine.

But maybe there is something I'm 
            missing.

Best, 
            Joe

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