[Vision2020] No Compassionate People? Just Look Around
Sue Hovey
suehovey at moscow.com
Wed May 30 23:15:46 PDT 2007
Donovan, your convoluted reasoning has you going again.
Sue
----- Original Message -----
From: Donovan Arnold
To: Sue Hovey
Cc: vision2020 at moscow.com ; Carl Westberg
Sent: Wednesday, May 30, 2007 8:35 PM
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] No Compassionate People? Just Look Around
Sue,
If people were compassionate and caring we would not need programs like "Doctors Without Boarders." We would not have had the shooting. We would have a skilled and assisted care center in Moscow for the indigent. If people cared those with disabilities would not be forced to live in the grinding poverty of $660 a month.
I think there is way too much suffering and the ignoring of suffering in the world to say that people care.
People in the county voted for $17,000,000 for additional education, but it would not vote for $1 to keep its only indigent care facility in the community. To me, that says a lot, it says that people don't care. Sell Grandma's house for $1 and send her off. That to me says the county is full of some pretty selfish heartless bastards.
Proof is in the pudding. If people cared, there would not be all this needless suffering and mistreatment of people in disadvantaged positions.
Best,
Donovan
Sue Hovey <suehovey at moscow.com> wrote:
Donovan,
A former student of mine was until a few months ago an MD working with Doctors Without Borders. I send money to that organization because it is a vivid reminder to me that people are compassionate, are willing to use their skills, subject themselves to possible harm, and sacrifice a very lucrative income because they are driven to help others. I see many who give of themselves to those who are not talented, pretty, young, cute, rich--those descriptors you outlined. When you say nobody sheds a tear for the old, disabled, ill and not so perfect, you are wrong. Not only do they shed tears, they offer help. Isn't your life an example of one who works with the not so perfect (and that fits most of us) to bring them comfort? Why would you believe you are the exception and not the rule?
Sue
----- Original Message -----
From: Donovan Arnold
To: Sue Hovey ; Carl Westberg ; vision2020 at moscow.com
Sent: Tuesday, May 29, 2007 9:25 PM
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Daily News: "OUR VIEW: Dog fights have noplaceinsociety"
Sue,
Sorry, but I don't think people do care about people. They care about certain people, but they don't care about the people that need the caring. They primarily only care about people that have current or future value to them. When the talented, pretty, cute, young, rich and the courageous are harmed the world cries Armageddon, while the old, disabled, ill, and not so perfect are tossed to the side in horrible conditions and nobody sheds a tear for their grinding poverty and suffering. Sorry, I don't buy the notion that people truly care about other people, by their fruits you shall know them.
Best,
Donovan
Sue Hovey <suehovey at moscow.com> wrote:
Now, Donovan, those concerns aren't mutually exclusive, you know. It seems pretty self evident to me, particularly after the events of the past week, the people on Vision 2020 are highly concerned about people as well as animals.
Sue
----- Original Message -----
From: Donovan Arnold
To: Carl Westberg ; vision2020 at moscow.com
Sent: Tuesday, May 29, 2007 7:26 PM
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Daily News: "OUR VIEW: Dog fights have noplaceinsociety"
I am just curious, why are people concerned about the ethical treatment of animals but not people?
Best,
Donovan
Carl Westberg <carlwestberg846 at hotmail.com> wrote:
I very recently read an article about dog fighting and how easy it is, in
rural areas, to conduct dog fights with very negligible risk of being
caught. Set it up deep in the woods, send out lookouts miles away to give
ample warning. Unfortunately, if our legislators need hard evidence, merely
because it hasn't been found doesn't mean the ugly problem does not exist in
our state. 48 other states have figured it out. There is no doubt an
element that thinks "what the hell, they're only dogs". I feel sorry for
those people. Thank you, Mr. Trail, for your efforts. Carl Westberg Jr.
>From: "Tom Hansen"
>To: "'Tom Trail'"
>CC:
>Subject: RE: Re: [Vision2020] Daily News: "OUR VIEW: Dog fights have no
>placeinsociety"
>Date: Tue, 29 May 2007 16:50:19 -0700
>
>Rep Trail -
>
>It is apparent by your response that mere articles and/or photos will not
>shame legislators into taking the high ground on this matter.
>
>As far as witnesses are concerned, I am afraid that you would almost have
>to
>force somebody that is already active in dog fighting to "roll over" on
>other dog fighting participants. As long as the penalty amounts to nothing
>more than a six-month jail term and giving up their lunch money, the threat
>of prosecution will not force a potential witness' hand. Couple that with
>a
>legislature that doesn't even feel it necessary to require criminal checks
>on potential day care center employees and you have a recipe for a dog
>fighting haven.
>
>Certainly there is something we here in Moscow can do to help.
>
>Tom Hansen
>Moscow, Idaho
>
>"Don't tell my why I can't.
>Show me how I can."
>
>- Author Unknown
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Tom Trail [mailto:ttrail at moscow.com]
>Sent: Tuesday, May 29, 2007 3:31 PM
>To: thansen at moscow.com
>Subject: Fwd: Re: [Vision2020] Daily News: "OUR VIEW: Dog fights have no
>placeinsociety"
>
>Tom I'll be working with the PNW Humane Society to try and get the
>dog/gamecock felony penalty introduced again this next session. We have
>the support from Bill Thompson who is the President of the Idaho State
>Prosecutors Association. Frankly to convince the hard headed legislators
>we need hard evidence that dog fighting exists in Idaho--a witness, etc.
>We haven't been able to come up with this in four years. We have lots of
>evidence on the game cock arena.
>
>Rep. Tom Trail
>
>
>
> >X-From_: vision2020-bounces at moscow.com Tue May 29 15:17:06 2007
> >From: "Tom Hansen"
> >To: "'Carl Westberg'" ,
>
> >Date: Tue, 29 May 2007 15:16:10 -0700
> >Thread-Index: AceiPDHDscunW4ERRUis7KoxQt62fQAAjvEg
> >X-pstn-levels: (S:99.90000/99.90000 R:95.9108 P:95.9108 M:97.0282
>C:98.6951
>)
> >Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Daily News: "OUR VIEW: Dog fights have no
> > placeinsociety"
> >X-BeenThere: vision2020 at moscow.com
> >List-Id: Moscow/Latah county community discussion list
>
> >List-Unsubscribe: ,
> >
> >List-Archive:
> >List-Post:
> >List-Help:
> >List-Subscribe: ,
> >
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> >X-pstn-levels: (S:99.90000/99.90000 R:95.9108 P:95.9108
> >M:97.0282 C:98.6951 )
> >
> >Carl et al -
> >
> >Rep Tom Trail has been campaigning for the past few years to increase dog
> >fighting to a felony. I have sent him article after article depicting
>how
> >these animals are mistreated and how (after they have outlived their
> >usefulness) they are simply tossed out into the Idaho wilderness, often
>with
> >their brains fried on gun powder and missing a limb.
> >
> >Perhaps we should push for it locally as well.
> >
> >How about it, Carl? Care to join me off-list and get this party started?
> >
> >Tom Hansen
> >Moscow, Idaho
> >
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: vision2020-bounces at moscow.com
>[mailto:vision2020-bounces at moscow.com]
> >On Behalf Of Carl Westberg
> >Sent: Tuesday, May 29, 2007 2:56 PM
> >To: vision2020 at moscow.com
> >Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Daily News: "OUR VIEW: Dog fights have no
> >placeinsociety"
> >
> >If any good can come of the Michael Vick story, it focuses our attention
>of
> >what, according to experts, is a far more pervasive problem than we know.
> >If you can stomach it, Sports Illustrated has a lengthy, if disturbing
>story
> >
> >on the dog fighting operation that Michael Vick is almost certainly
>involved
> >
> >in:
> >http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/football/nfl/05/29/vick0604/index.htm
>l
> >
> > Why is dog fighting not a felony in Idaho? Carl Westberg Jr.
> >
> >
> >>From: "Saundra Lund"
> >>To:
> >>Subject: [Vision2020] Daily News: "OUR VIEW: Dog fights have no place
> >>insociety"
> >>Date: Tue, 29 May 2007 14:49:13 -0700
> >>
> >>Visionaries:
> >>
> >>The following editorial appears in today's Moscow-Pullman Daily News.
> >>
> >>As an aside, I served on the City of Moscow's Animal (Care and) Control
> >>Task
> >>Force in 2005, and I was shocked to find out from Lori Freeman from the
> >>Humane Society of the Palouse (HSOP) that we have dog fighting right
>here
> >>in
> >>Latah County :-( Unlike the example of Virginia in the editorial,
>Idaho
> >>CONTINUES to be one of only eight states, IIRC, lacking any felony
> >>provision
> >>for animal cruelty, no matter how heinous the cruelty :-(
> >>
> >>
> >>Saundra Lund
> >>Moscow, ID
> >>
> >>The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good people to
>do
> >>nothing.
> >>- Edmund Burke
> >>
> >>
> >>"OUR VIEW: Dog fights have no place in society
> >>By Doug Bauer, for the editorial board
> >>May 29, 2007
> >>
> >>Brutality is as common in the world of sports as home runs and
>touchdowns.
> >>In some instances, such as ultimate fighting and even NASCAR, it's the
> > >primary reason many choose to watch the sport.
> >>
> >>Dog fighting is a far different animal - no pun intended.
> >>
> >>The canines are pitted against one another in a battle that is bloody,
> >>inhumane and often deadly.
> >>
> >>There is absolutely nothing sporting about that.
> >>
> >>Police in Virginia are investigating whether Atlanta Falcons quarterback
> >>Michael Vick was part of what appears to be an organized dog-fighting
>ring.
> >>Dogs and equipment associated with dog fighting were seized from a home
> >>owned by the NFL star earlier this year.
> >>
> >>Vick has denied any involvement, blaming relatives for taking advantage
>of
> >>his generosity and insisting he's rarely at the house, even though he's
>the
> >>owner.
> >>
> >>Surry County Commonwealth Attorney Gerald Poindexter has said as many as
> >>six
> >>to 10 people could be involved. Dog fighting is a felony in Virginia.
> >>
> >>"I'm convinced from what I saw that dog fighting has occurred down
>there,
> >>but who was involved in it I don't know at this point," said Poindexter,
> >>noting that he saw what looked like blood splatters in a room over a
> >>garage.
> >>
> >>The splatters were the "most suggestive evidence of dog fighting," he
> >>added.
> >>"There were blood splatters, and somebody would have to explain to me
>how
> >>you draw blood in the normal training of pit bulls."
> >>
> >>You don't.
> >>
> >>Dogs are commonly referred to as man's best friend. Those who take part
>in
> >>dog fighting - at any level - are hardly reciprocating that friendship.
> >>
> >>Dogs that are forced to fight one another don't get a posh retirement
>party
> >>when their fighting days are done. Many eventually are euthanized,
>either
> >>due to their injuries or because they're too aggressive.
> >>
> >>Some are put down simply because they're poor fighters.
> >>
> >>Vick plays in an arena where opposing fans cheer for his demise. They
>want
> >>to see him harassed, chased and sacked - maybe even injured.
> >>
> >>He's paid a great deal of money for his efforts, and he usually gets up
> >>after he's been taken down.
> >>
> >>Neither can be said of the so-called sport police believe has been
> >>occurring
> >>at his home."
> >>
> >>
> >>=======================================================
> >> List services made available by First Step Internet,
> >> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
> >> http://www.fsr.net
> >> mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
> >>=======================================================
> >
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> > serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
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> > mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
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>
>--
>Dr. Tom Trail
>International Trails
>1375 Mt. View Rd.
>Moscow, Id. 83843
>Tel: (208) 882-6077
>Fax: (208) 882-0896
>e mail ttrail at moscow.com
>
>
>
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