[Vision2020] School District Math
Mike Deleve
coolerfixer at adelphia.net
Wed May 30 15:09:13 PDT 2007
Well, I hope I was enjoyable, diligent, err................. well, umm, I
,uh, yeah. That was a long time ago!
Mike
----- Original Message -----
From: "Sue Hovey" <suehovey at moscow.com>
To: "Mike Deleve" <coolerfixer at adelphia.net>; <vision2020 at moscow.com>
Sent: Wednesday, May 30, 2007 1:08 PM
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] School District Math
> Mike, I don't disagree with you. If you are angry because you feel
> cheated, I would admit you have a legitimate right to that anger. You
> were a diligent and enjoyable student. So what do we do now? I know
> every class we institute should be done with care for all student needs
> and given what you are saying we failed you. I do so want a school
> district where all students have the choices they need to make good post
> high school decisions. Messages from former students who really did take
> their high school offerings seriously, do resonate with me. You were one
> of those. It seems to me there must be room somewhere for those such as I
> who don't want students to be relegated to descriptors such as college
> bound and non college bound, and others such as you who want students who
> have been underserved or unserved to be seen as people with legitimate
> needs which the district is not meeting, to design and implement programs
> that will meet those students' needs.
>
> When you were in high school we were kicking around the idea of building a
> comprehensive multi-district high school to serve non-college bound
> students with vocational/technical skills. I didn't like the idea then,
> and I don't like the idea now, but it seems to me there ought to be ways
> to integrate those offerings through cooperative programs with the U of I,
> LCSC, and other nearby districts--but honestly I'm getting into an area
> where I don't have current knowledge of what is already taking place.
>
> Thanks for your perspective. I appreciate it.
>
> Sue
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Mike Deleve" <coolerfixer at adelphia.net>
> To: <vision2020 at moscow.com>; "Sue Hovey" <suehovey at moscow.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, May 30, 2007 11:26 AM
> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] School District Math
>
>
>> Quoting my U.S. Government teacher, Sue Hovey, "My disagreement is with
>> those who would stratify the high school population into the college
>> bound and the non college bound and lock step them through any program."
>>
>> So my question is, why do we lockstep them through a college bound only
>> program? No choice for the non-college bound. Trust me on this. The non
>> college bound will not feel slighted by the addition of choices to help
>> them with their long-term life goals. I feel I was cheated when I moved
>> to Moscow. My previous school had a virtual apothecary of voc. ed classes
>> to choose from. I knew long before high school that I had no interest in
>> college. MSD's lack of voc ed hindered my career choices. If I had to do
>> it over again, I would have moved to California and lived with my
>> Grandmother and gone to school there. I would be far better off now.
>> Gerry Weitz?I agree wholeheartedly with him on the subject of voc. ed.
>> but not his tactics whatsoever. I have had discussions with many people
>> over the years about the MSD's lack of voc ed, and the opinion that the
>> MSD is off track is by far in the majority. There may be many fine
>> teachers in the system (and Mrs. Hovey, you were one of them) but I truly
>> believe that the MAJORITY of high school students are underserved if not
>> unserved. I apologize if the tone of this is too aggressive, but this is
>> a VERY sore subject with me.
>>
>> Mike
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Sue Hovey" <suehovey at moscow.com>
>> To: "Saundra Lund" <sslund at roadrunner.com>; <vision2020 at moscow.com>;
>> "'Donovan Arnold'" <donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com>
>> Sent: Wednesday, May 30, 2007 11:00 AM
>> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] School District Math
>>
>>
>>> But I don't disagree with you. Those classes should be offered for
>>> everyone. My disagreement is with those who would stratify the high
>>> school
>>> population into the college bound and the non college bound and lock
>>> step
>>> them through any program. I apologize if I didn't make myself clear.
>>> And
>>> as for keyboarding skills, it seems to me they need to be taught in
>>> elementary school. It used to be argued that elementary student motor
>>> skills weren't developed enough for keyboarding, but I think from
>>> looking at
>>> the fine motor skills of young people, that's probably a crock...
>>>
>>> Sue
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Saundra Lund" <sslund at roadrunner.com>
>>> To: "'Sue Hovey'" <suehovey at moscow.com>; <vision2020 at moscow.com>;
>>> "'Donovan
>>> Arnold'" <donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com>
>>> Sent: Wednesday, May 30, 2007 10:28 AM
>>> Subject: RE: [Vision2020] School District Math
>>>
>>>
>>>> Hi Sue & Other Visionaries:
>>>>
>>>> Well, I hesitate to toss my opinions into the mix. First, Donovan & I
>>>> might
>>>> both keel over from the shock of publicly almost agreeing with each
>>>> other
>>>> ;-)
>>>>
>>>> Second, and perhaps most importantly, I'm not particularly
>>>> well-informed
>>>> about some of these things, and I don't have the answers.
>>>>
>>>> OTOH, by tossing my opinions out there, I might get an education
>>>> through
>>>> the
>>>> feedback :-)
>>>>
>>>> I'm not happy with Dr. Weitz's & his GMA buddies' lawsuit. I think it
>>>> was
>>>> a
>>>> destructive & divisive thing for them to do, and I would like to think
>>>> that
>>>> there was some better way for Dr. Weitz to accomplish his purpose,
>>>> whatever
>>>> it was. However, I'm not privy to what other, if any, attempts he may
>>>> or
>>>> may not have made prior to filing suit.
>>>>
>>>> That said, I am *incredibly* disappointed with the school district.
>>>> There
>>>> is no excuse, IMHO, for having such an incredibly anemic pro-tech (or
>>>> whatever the current word is for what used to be vo-tech) ed program
>>>> :-(((
>>>> It's absolutely unconscionable, IMHO.
>>>>
>>>> I've told these two anecdotes before, but for those who weren't here
>>>> back
>>>> then . . .
>>>>
>>>> First, when my daughter was at MJHS, we were told that if we wanted her
>>>> to
>>>> formally learn keyboarding (the modern equivalent to the typing I
>>>> learned
>>>> back in the Dark Ages), she *had* to take it at the junior high because
>>>> it
>>>> wasn't offered at the high school. To me, that is one of the biggest
>>>> loads
>>>> of you-know-what -- I don't care what the excuse is, telling kids they
>>>> have
>>>> to take keyboarding before tenth grade or not at all is a huge
>>>> disservice
>>>> to
>>>> our students in this day & age.
>>>>
>>>> Second, I was one of those disgusting highly motivated, high achieving
>>>> students who participated in lots of extracurricular activities back in
>>>> the
>>>> Dark Ages and who couldn't wait to get through high school and move
>>>> onto
>>>> college. I went to summer school (another important thing this
>>>> district
>>>> is
>>>> lacking, IMHO) every summer so I could take more electives and graduate
>>>> early. Which I did.
>>>>
>>>> HOWEVER, the vo-tech training I took is what enabled me to progress
>>>> through
>>>> higher education -- the skill I learned put me above minimum wage and
>>>> opened
>>>> lots of opportunities for me to be able to work while going to college.
>>>> Because my father didn't support my planned course of education, he
>>>> withheld
>>>> my college funds. Since I'd not applied for financial aid or
>>>> scholarships
>>>> because I thought it better to leave those for young adults who
>>>> wouldn't
>>>> be
>>>> able to go to school without them, I wouldn't have been able to
>>>> *afford*
>>>> to
>>>> go to college were it not for the skills I got from vo-tech.
>>>>
>>>> I think it's a HUGE mistake to think that the pro-tech education this
>>>> district is sorely lacking would only be of benefit to non-college
>>>> bound
>>>> students. Regardless of the actual stats of district college-bound
>>>> students
>>>> vs non-college-bound students, it's inexcusable, IMHO, that our
>>>> district
>>>> doesn't offer a real pro-tech program to *all* it's high school
>>>> students.
>>>> I
>>>> don't know how we got to this point, but it's wrong, Wrong, WRONG.
>>>>
>>>> So, while I strongly disagree with Dr. Weitz's course of action, I also
>>>> strongly support his efforts to get this district into the 21st century
>>>> with
>>>> pro-tech education for *all* our high school students . . . and I
>>>> strongly
>>>> disagree with the district's refusal to make progress in this area.
>>>>
>>>> Oh, and as an aside to Donovan, while I'm not qualified to discuss the
>>>> nutritional status of our school breakfasts & lunches, I will say I'm
>>>> not
>>>> happy with them. Try being the parent of a vegetarian student, and no,
>>>> my
>>>> daughter isn't the only vegetarian at the high school! In our family,
>>>> we
>>>> (well, maybe not my husband) used to really Friday nights as Pizza
>>>> nights,
>>>> but since that's reportedly just about the *only* vegetarian choice at
>>>> lunch, the bloom is *definitely* off that rose for my daughter after
>>>> eating
>>>> it day in & day out for just about two years now.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> JMHO,
>>>> Saundra Lund
>>>> Moscow, ID
>>>>
>>>> The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good people to
>>>> do
>>>> nothing.
>>>> - Edmund Burke
>>>>
>>>> ***** Original material contained herein is Copyright 2007 through life
>>>> plus
>>>> 70 years, Saundra Lund. Do not copy, forward, excerpt, or reproduce
>>>> outside
>>>> the Vision 2020 forum without the express written permission of the
>>>> author.*****
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: vision2020-bounces at moscow.com
>>>> [mailto:vision2020-bounces at moscow.com]
>>>> On Behalf Of Sue Hovey
>>>> Sent: Wednesday, May 30, 2007 9:19 AM
>>>> To: vision2020 at moscow.com; Donovan Arnold
>>>> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] School District Math
>>>>
>>>> Donovan makes a comparison one hears only too often today regarding
>>>> the
>>>> levy and its purpose. That's the pull between vocational and other
>>>> education. His figure of 80% non college bound and 20% college bound
>>>> is
>>>> skewed for a number of reasons, but it isn't my purpose to mess with
>>>> it.
>>>> I
>>>> would simply ask:
>>>>
>>>> What part of an academic education should those not college bound
>>>> forego? A good grounding in math? So many vocational-technical
>>>> careers
>>>> are
>>>> based in mathematic principals. Being a good writer--one who uses
>>>> literary
>>>> conventions (spelling, punctuation, grammar) correctly, in order to
>>>> communicate effectively in an increasingly interactive world? An
>>>> introduction to good literature and the mental stimulation it provides?
>>>> A
>>>> sound knowledge of basic scientific principles, and the theories on
>>>> which
>>>> they are based? A knowledge of the history, not only of our country,
>>>> but
>>>> the history and cultural underpinnings of current nations and the
>>>> governments which preceeded them? Foreign language? Art? Music? Are
>>>> not
>>>> all these offerings equally important and vital to the proper education
>>>> of
>>>> all our students, regardless of the career paths they choose, sometimes
>>>> after heading down one path only to find they really want to be
>>>> somewhere
>>>> else?
>>>>
>>>> It concerns me when people begin to make significant distinctions
>>>> among
>>>> students and their intellectual needs, based on educational plans that
>>>> could
>>>> tie them to lifetime career paths they may later find did not prepare
>>>> them
>>>> for the life they really want to lead. The best education for students
>>>> is
>>>> one that gives them ample preparation to sieze the opportunities which
>>>> appeal to them in their 20s and 30s and not be limited by the choices
>>>> they
>>>> made, or even worse, those that were made for them, when they were 15
>>>> or
>>>> 16.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Sue Hovey
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: Donovan Arnold <mailto:donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com>
>>>> To: Glenn Schwaller <mailto:vpschwaller at gmail.com> ;
>>>> vision2020 at moscow.com
>>>> Sent: Tuesday, May 29, 2007 9:36 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] School District Math
>>>>
>>>> Dr. Weitz is not only correct about the lawsuit because it is
>>>> stealing from the public, but he is also correct in bring attention to
>>>> the
>>>> notion that the School District doesn't want to spend money and
>>>> resources
>>>> on
>>>> the 80% of students that will not be college graduates and will be
>>>> working
>>>> a
>>>> vocational job. Is it fair to spend 80% of the pie on 20% of the kids?
>>>> I
>>>> think not. MSD is practicing discrimination.
>>>>
>>>> Best,
>>>>
>>>> Donovan
>>>>
>>>> PS. The poor nutritional value of school lunches are another example
>>>> of poor decisions being made by the public school system to prepare
>>>> children
>>>> for a quality life.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> No virus found in this incoming message.
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>>>> 5/29/2007
>>>> 1:01 PM
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
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>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
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>>
>
>
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