[Vision2020] School District Math

Mike Deleve coolerfixer at adelphia.net
Wed May 30 11:26:47 PDT 2007

Quoting my U.S. Government teacher, Sue Hovey, "My disagreement is with 
those who would stratify the high school  population into the college bound 
and the non college bound and lock step  them through any program."

So my question is, why do we lockstep them through a college bound only 
program? No choice for the non-college bound. Trust me on this. The non 
college bound will not feel slighted by the addition of choices to help them 
with their long-term life goals. I feel I was cheated when I moved to 
Moscow. My previous school had a virtual apothecary of voc. ed classes to 
choose from. I knew long before high school that I had no interest in 
college. MSD's lack of voc ed hindered my career choices. If I had to do it 
over again, I would have moved to California and lived with my Grandmother 
and gone to school there. I would be far better off now. Gerry Weitz?I agree 
wholeheartedly with him on the subject of voc. ed. but not his tactics 
whatsoever. I have had discussions with many people over the years about 
the MSD's lack of voc ed, and the opinion that the MSD is off track is by 
far in the majority. There may be many fine teachers in the system (and Mrs. 
Hovey, you were one of them) but I truly believe that the MAJORITY of high 
school students are underserved if not unserved. I apologize if the tone of 
this is too aggressive, but this is a VERY sore subject with me.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Sue Hovey" <suehovey at moscow.com>
To: "Saundra Lund" <sslund at roadrunner.com>; <vision2020 at moscow.com>; 
"'Donovan Arnold'" <donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com>
Sent: Wednesday, May 30, 2007 11:00 AM
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] School District Math

> But I don't disagree with you.  Those classes should be offered for
> everyone.  My disagreement is with those who would stratify the high 
> school
> population into the college bound and the non college bound and lock step
> them through any program.  I apologize if I didn't make myself clear.  And
> as for keyboarding skills, it seems to me they need to be taught in
> elementary school.  It used to be argued that elementary student motor
> skills weren't developed enough for keyboarding, but I think from looking 
> at
> the fine motor skills of young people, that's probably a crock...
> Sue
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Saundra Lund" <sslund at roadrunner.com>
> To: "'Sue Hovey'" <suehovey at moscow.com>; <vision2020 at moscow.com>; 
> "'Donovan
> Arnold'" <donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, May 30, 2007 10:28 AM
> Subject: RE: [Vision2020] School District Math
>> Hi Sue & Other Visionaries:
>> Well, I hesitate to toss my opinions into the mix.  First, Donovan & I
>> might
>> both keel over from the shock of publicly almost agreeing with each other
>> ;-)
>> Second, and perhaps most importantly, I'm not particularly well-informed
>> about some of these things, and I don't have the answers.
>> OTOH, by tossing my opinions out there, I might get an education through
>> the
>> feedback  :-)
>> I'm not happy with Dr. Weitz's & his GMA buddies' lawsuit.  I think it 
>> was
>> a
>> destructive & divisive thing for them to do, and I would like to think
>> that
>> there was some better way for Dr. Weitz to accomplish his purpose,
>> whatever
>> it was.  However, I'm not privy to what other, if any, attempts he may or
>> may not have made prior to filing suit.
>> That said, I am *incredibly* disappointed with the school district. 
>> There
>> is no excuse, IMHO, for having such an incredibly anemic pro-tech (or
>> whatever the current word is for what used to be vo-tech) ed program
>> :-(((
>> It's absolutely unconscionable, IMHO.
>> I've told these two anecdotes before, but for those who weren't here back
>> then . . .
>> First, when my daughter was at MJHS, we were told that if we wanted her 
>> to
>> formally learn keyboarding (the modern equivalent to the typing I learned
>> back in the Dark Ages), she *had* to take it at the junior high because 
>> it
>> wasn't offered at the high school.  To me, that is one of the biggest
>> loads
>> of you-know-what -- I don't care what the excuse is, telling kids they
>> have
>> to take keyboarding before tenth grade or not at all is a huge disservice
>> to
>> our students in this day & age.
>> Second, I was one of those disgusting highly motivated, high achieving
>> students who participated in lots of extracurricular activities back in
>> the
>> Dark Ages and who couldn't wait to get through high school and move onto
>> college.  I went to summer school (another important thing this district
>> is
>> lacking, IMHO) every summer so I could take more electives and graduate
>> early.  Which I did.
>> HOWEVER,  the vo-tech training I took is what enabled me to progress
>> through
>> higher education -- the skill I learned put me above minimum wage and
>> opened
>> lots of opportunities for me to be able to work while going to college.
>> Because my father didn't support my planned course of education, he
>> withheld
>> my college funds.  Since I'd not applied for financial aid or 
>> scholarships
>> because I thought it better to leave those for young adults who wouldn't
>> be
>> able to go to school without them, I wouldn't have been able to *afford*
>> to
>> go to college were it not for the skills I got from vo-tech.
>> I think it's a HUGE mistake to think that the pro-tech education this
>> district is sorely lacking would only be of benefit to non-college bound
>> students.  Regardless of the actual stats of district college-bound
>> students
>> vs non-college-bound students, it's inexcusable, IMHO, that our district
>> doesn't offer a real pro-tech program to *all* it's high school students.
>> I
>> don't know how we got to this point, but it's wrong, Wrong, WRONG.
>> So, while I strongly disagree with Dr. Weitz's course of action, I also
>> strongly support his efforts to get this district into the 21st century
>> with
>> pro-tech education for *all* our high school students . . . and I 
>> strongly
>> disagree with the district's refusal to make progress in this area.
>> Oh, and as an aside to Donovan, while I'm not qualified to discuss the
>> nutritional status of our school breakfasts & lunches, I will say I'm not
>> happy with them.  Try being the parent of a vegetarian student, and no, 
>> my
>> daughter isn't the only vegetarian at the high school!  In our family, we
>> (well, maybe not my husband) used to really Friday nights as Pizza 
>> nights,
>> but since that's reportedly just about the *only* vegetarian choice at
>> lunch, the bloom is *definitely* off that rose for my daughter after
>> eating
>> it day in & day out for just about two years now.
>> JMHO,
>> Saundra Lund
>> Moscow, ID
>> The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good people to do
>> nothing.
>> - Edmund Burke
>> ***** Original material contained herein is Copyright 2007 through life
>> plus
>> 70 years, Saundra Lund. Do not copy, forward, excerpt, or reproduce
>> outside
>> the Vision 2020 forum without the express written permission of the
>> author.*****
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: vision2020-bounces at moscow.com 
>> [mailto:vision2020-bounces at moscow.com]
>> On Behalf Of Sue Hovey
>> Sent: Wednesday, May 30, 2007 9:19 AM
>> To: vision2020 at moscow.com; Donovan Arnold
>> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] School District Math
>>    Donovan makes a comparison one hears only too often today regarding 
>> the
>> levy and its purpose.  That's the pull between vocational and other
>> education.  His figure of 80% non college bound and 20% college bound is
>> skewed for a number of reasons, but it isn't my purpose to mess with it.
>> I
>> would simply ask:
>>    What part of an academic education should those not college bound
>> forego?  A good grounding in math?  So many vocational-technical careers
>> are
>> based in mathematic principals.  Being a good writer--one who uses
>> literary
>> conventions (spelling, punctuation, grammar) correctly, in order to
>> communicate effectively in an increasingly interactive world?  An
>> introduction to good literature and the mental stimulation it provides? 
>> A
>> sound knowledge of basic scientific principles, and the theories on which
>> they are based?  A knowledge of the history, not only of our country, but
>> the history and cultural underpinnings of current nations and the
>> governments which preceeded them?  Foreign language?  Art?  Music?  Are
>> not
>> all these offerings equally important and vital to the proper education 
>> of
>> all our students, regardless of the career paths they choose, sometimes
>> after heading down one path only to find they really want to be somewhere
>> else?
>>    It concerns me when people begin to make significant distinctions 
>> among
>> students and their intellectual needs, based on educational plans that
>> could
>> tie them to lifetime career paths they may later find did not prepare 
>> them
>> for the life they really want to lead.  The best education for students 
>> is
>> one that gives them ample preparation to sieze the opportunities which
>> appeal to them in their 20s and 30s and not be limited by the choices 
>> they
>> made, or even worse, those that were made for them, when they were 15 or
>> 16.
>> Sue Hovey
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: Donovan Arnold <mailto:donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com>
>> To: Glenn Schwaller <mailto:vpschwaller at gmail.com>  ;
>> vision2020 at moscow.com
>> Sent: Tuesday, May 29, 2007 9:36 PM
>> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] School District Math
>> Dr. Weitz is not only correct about the lawsuit because it is
>> stealing from the public, but he is also correct in bring attention to 
>> the
>> notion that the School District doesn't want to spend money and resources
>> on
>> the 80% of students that will not be college graduates and will be 
>> working
>> a
>> vocational job. Is it fair to spend 80% of the pie on 20% of the kids? I
>> think not. MSD is practicing discrimination.
>> Best,
>> Donovan
>> PS. The poor nutritional value of school lunches are another example
>> of poor decisions being made by the public school system to prepare
>> children
>> for a quality life.
>> -- 
>> No virus found in this incoming message.
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