[Vision2020] the difference (ws personal invitation to Mr. Schwaller)

g. crabtree jampot at adelphia.net
Wed May 30 07:37:08 PDT 2007

Ms. Mix,

It is my understanding that the instant that Mr. Sitler's pastor became aware of the crimes that he had committed he made immediate arrangements for the authorities to be notified, Sitler removed as a threat to children, and the people that he thought affected informed. Could he have done more? I suppose that a full page ad could have been taken out or he could have gone door to door to be sure that every mother in Moscow was completely aware of the sordid situation. I'm guessing that had he done either of these things there would have been complaints that he didn't appear on national TV to spread the word.

Of the men that I listed in the post you are referring to why did I not hear the same out cry? Why was Mr. Burkgart's Pastor not vilified for not alerting Latah Co. to the dangers of his congregant? Why no hue and cry when Mr. Buckinghams priest didn't see to it that a note reached every local in box? Mr. Brazington's guidance councilor excoriated for not sending out a community wide memo? Perhaps every clergy person, counselor, and health professional should be taken to task for "not immediately and publicly sounding the alarm" on their charges crimes rather than simply referring them to the proper authorities to be dealt with as the law requires.

When it comes to Sitler's release and the terms of his parole it seems to me that we very much have an apples to apples comparison with the men I have previously listed. To somehow blame his pastor for this condition is definitely barking up the wrong tree. It would seem that your complaints would be better directed to the judge, the prosecutor, the probation and parole department, heck maybe even his parents. To imply that this one offender is somehow more of a threat then the other men I have mentioned because of his affiliation with a "particular community" is a contention that I do not think that you can effectively support.

I appreciate that you feel a concern for the youth of our community. The point I am attempting to make is that I do not believe that it is your sole concern. Were Sitler to have renounced his former church and perhaps even disingenuously made the assertion that it had somehow contributed to his deviance (as "certain elements" on this list have) discussions of him and this topic would have taken on a very different tone. I don't think this position is "stubborn and truculent" I believe it's obvious to any fair minded observer. To deny it would seem foolish.

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: keely emerinemix 
  To: g. crabtree ; Glenn Schwaller ; Bob Herodotus ; vision2020 at moscow.com 
  Sent: Tuesday, May 29, 2007 8:00 PM
  Subject: [Vision2020] the difference (ws personal invitation to Mr. Schwaller)

  Tom Hansen has ably explained why a recently-convicted, just-released pedophile, one who faced only one count but admitted to many, many others, is of greater concern than the majority of other sex offenders.  I will now try to explain why there is so much indignation expressed by "certain elements" on this list.  I'll try to do so without self-righteously pointing out that while Schwaller appears to be blithe and disingenuous, Crabtree appears to be merely stubborn and truculent.

  No critique of anything having to do with anyone at Christ Church, it seems, can be judged on its own merit or lack thereof in Gary's world -- while professing to be a fair-minded guy, he has apparently decided that origin of critique and substance of critique are the same thing.  And since Christ Church staff and defenders rarely stick around Vision 2020 when the going gets tough, it becomes easy to blast any Vision 2020 questions regarding Kirk practice, doctrine, or engagement with the community as the cynical whisperings of a "certain element" dedicated to trashing a quirky but entirely innocent group of God-worshippers.  Kirkers hide behind pseudonyms or leave the forum in a huff, sniffling and snorting while Gary bravely points out that those who are concerned about Sitler's conviction, sentence, release and supervision haven't properly memorized the adjudication of every sex offender now living in Latah County.  

  The truth is that while Christ Church did not hide a pedophile among them during the time Sitler offended, they did hide from the community that a serial pedophile had been among them -- an important distinction and one that Crabtree, much less the merry men of the Kirk, refuse to acknowledge.  Sitler's parents' church immediately warned the community -- with name and picture published throughout the community -- that Sitler was a pedophile and that Sitler had been active in the Colville area.  Wilson and company waited for several months to tell predominately male heads of households that "a sex offender" -- there's some question whether or not Sitler or the nature of his deeds was named -- had been among them and would likely be returning.  The only women worthy of official notice were those unmarried HOHs who bothered to attend meetings; the mothers of young children had to find out from their "covenant heads," even though -- God, I'm tired of saying this -- mothers of young children are generally in a better position than anyone to correlate certain symptoms with possible acts of depravity.  And as for the non-Kirk community -- well, a brave blogger in the know broke the news.  He was smacked down and hung out to dry; Wilson and the elders blathered on and on about "the victims;" and I am not aware of even one time when Wilson has acknowledged that MAYBE his neighbors, and the mothers who call him "pastor," might be deserving of a heads-up.  Not once.

  Sin is sin, crime is crime, and sex crimes of all nature are inherently stomach-churning.  But most thinking people can make a moral determination that there is a quantitative if not qualitative difference between a guy in his 20s who has sex with his underage girlfriend.  That guy, while deserving of all the law has to hand out and a swift kick in the ass as well, isn't generally a threat to others.  The adult, Christian college-educated man who repeatedly uses toddlers for sex and does so in the most brazen, arrogant, and reckless fashion is different.  Sitler and only Sitler is accountable for his actions; Wilson and the elders, and only Wilson and the elders, are accountable for the disdain with which they treated the community in not immediately and publicly sounding the alarm.  We all know that there is not a class of pedophilia that limits its victims to "those also in the offenders church," and we know serial pedophiles are virtually certain to reoffend.  It's tragic if they do so within or outside of their particular community.

  I know that Gary Crabtree is a smart guy who sees this.  I just wonder when Gary will be the honest guy that I believe him to be and finally acknowledge that all is not well at the Kirk and certainly wasn't during the time Sitler confessed.  Or is it more fun to simply blast away at the straw men erected to strengthen his contention that the Kirk is being persecuted?  Because if so, that's not curmudgeonly and libertarian, Gary -- it's foolish.


    From: jampot at adelphia.net
    To: kjajmix1 at msn.com; vpschwaller at gmail.com; bherodotus at yahoo.com; vision2020 at moscow.com
    Subject: Re: [Vision2020] A personal invitation to Mr. Schwaller
    Date: Tue, 29 May 2007 14:31:34 -0700

    It's rather difficult to take all the indignation and self righteousness expressed by a certain element on this list as seriously as one might otherwise. Why is Sitler singled out for all the condemnation (not that he doesn't deserve every ounce of it) when there has there been nary a peep when it comes to others who have committed the very same (or worse) crime in this county and also still reside here. Where is your "legitimate fears" when it comes to Michael Ashcraft, Christopher Busting, and Mike Brazington? Why are you not so vocally "concerned" about Robert Buckingham, Frank Burkgart, and Harvey Hamilton? What about the likelihood of reoffense for Michael Hardway, Dennis Hendrix, Wayne Jacobs, Knute Klingler, and Kevin Osterberg? Could it be that they get no Vision 2020 scrutiny and castigation because to do so would not further an agenda? I'm afraid that the pious blather that comes from History Daddy and his little band of likeminded friends would be far easier to stomach were it not so blatantly just another cynical means to an end.

      ----- Original Message ----- 
      From: keely emerinemix 
      To: Glenn Schwaller ; Bob Herodotus ; vision2020 at moscow.com 
      Sent: Tuesday, May 29, 2007 7:52 AM
      Subject: Re: [Vision2020] A personal invitation to Mr. Schwaller

      Somewhere between five and 98 percent of all Visionaires who read the post below detect an undercurrent of  snarling, manly arrogance.  I'm guessing that the two percent were raising their Sabbath glasses to him.

      Either way, his attempts to mask his disdain for his questioner by quoting the gamut of statistics that might address the Sitler situation fell flat.  I'm afraid indifference to the genuine concern expressed by other Visionaires and disdain for them for expressing it leaked out like a robust Syrah in cloudy, cracked stemware.

      I'll try it the simple, albeit shrill and insistent, manner Schwaller by now knows me for:

      Can you possibly grasp the anger this community has toward Sitler and those who dealt with him, and can you understand the legitimate fears of those concerned that he's out of jail?  


        Date: Mon, 28 May 2007 14:18:47 -0700
        From: vpschwaller at gmail.com
        To: bherodotus at yahoo.com; vision2020 at moscow.com
        Subject: Re: [Vision2020] A personal invitation to Mr. Schwaller

        Visionaries and Mr Herodotus,

        Thank you for the invitation to "return" but I never really left.  I was simply a bit busy over the past few days taking advantage of the weather break to plant the begonias, nasturtiums, and geraniums.

        I'll attempt to answer your questions, but I do so assuming you are being genuine and not disingenuous in your query.  I mention this only because another visionary has questioned "the truth about (your) opinions", that this individual "Doesn't believe I'll do that" (accept the truth of my opinions), "thank you very much.", then proceeds to demand the answer to 3 additional questions.

        So, on to your questions.  These are important, timely questions that deserve answers.  However, I don't believe I can give you full nor adequate answers to any of them.  I don't know that definitive answers exist, however one can find just about any answer one wants to fit one's position.  That being said:

        "1. Can you please tell us the recidivism rate for serial pedophiles?"

        I don't believe a thorough statistical study has been done for over 10 years.  So keeping that in mind, according to the U.S. Department of Justice Bureau of Justice Statistics, within 3 years of release from incarceration, a little more than 5 percent of sex offenders were rearrested for another sex crime.  If one looks at ALL crimes committed, about 40 percent of sex offenders were rearrested for other offenses.

        Within this three year period, 3.5 percent of convicted sex offenders were convicted again for a sex crime, 24 percent convicted for new crimes, and about 40 percent are imprisoned again because of a parole or probation violation.

        However, if you're Joan Opyr, in an article she published not quite a year ago, she quotes a 75% recidivism rate.

        The USDJ study also looked at the relationship between offenders and victims and reported that overall, 46 percent of the victims were a family member.  A 2005 study by the National Crime Victimization Survey reports that 73 percent of sexual assaults were known by the victim: 38 percent were a friend or acquaintance, 28 percent were involved in an "intimate" relationship, and 7 percent were another relative.    

        An NPR story in 2005 offered a 98 percent recidivism rate over a 25 year period, with a 60 percent likelihood of offending again within 5 years under the best treatment available., there is a 60% occurrence of re-offence within five years. The story also mentions that the offender in most sexual abuse cases is a family member or friend of the family  (97 percent for victims under the age of 6, and 95 percent of those between the ages 6 and 12).

        So, somewhere between 5 and 95 percent?

        "2. Can you please share with us the average number of children that repeat offenders violate before their discovery?"

        Again, I have no concrete statistics.  There is apparently some information on Mr Sitler's repeated violations before he was discovered (I'm sure Mr Hansen can give you that number off the top of his head).  The numbers seem to run from one to dozens over decades for catholic priests.  And in Portugal, a driver and gardener was accused of molesting children at the school where he was worked.  After questioning and examining more than 600 children, over 125 were reported to have been victimized by this individual.

        So, somewhere between 1 and more than 125? 

        "3,  Can you please describe for us a worst-case scenario for the children of Moscow (number of victims, age of victims, types of abuse, etc.), if Mr. Sitler resumes his pattern of serial predation?"

        Quite frankly, I sense an undercurrent of sarcasm in this last question, but hey . . .

        Maybe you can ask me how many polar bears, perched on their ever-diminishing slab of ice, are going to starve tonight?

        Well, obviously I can't give you the answers you would like to hear.  I doubt even Mr Sitler himself would know, given the worst possible case, what would be the answers to those questions.  However, if you refer back to the replies to Question 1, you may find some answers of sorts in there.

        I'd like to think I have the community's, but perhaps not that of starving polar bear's, interests at heart.


        "You can always see it commin', but you can never stop it."
          --Michael Timmins

        On 5/28/07, Bob Herodotus <bherodotus at yahoo.com > wrote: 
          Visionaries and Mr. Schwaller,

          I personally invite Mr. Schwaller to return to this forum because I for one found his posts both provocative and enlightening. Hard facts about serial pedophiles are difficult to ascertain and I commend him for sharing his knowledge of this unseemly subject with us so that we as a community can be better prepared to address a predator in our midst.

          With this in mind, I have a couple of questions for Mr. Schwaller.

          1. Can you please tell us the recidivism rate for serial pedophiles?

          2. Can you please share with us the average number of children that repeat offenders violate before their discovery?

          3. Finally, given your familiarity with Steven Sitler's case file, can you please describe for us a worst-case scenario for the children of Moscow (number of victims, age of victims, types of abuse, etc.), if Mr. Sitler resumes his pattern of serial predation?

          I believe that these are reasonable questions for a community to ask and I believe that you have our community's best interests at heart.

          Thank you,


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