[Vision2020] what he was shooting
Paul Rumelhart
godshatter at yahoo.com
Tue May 22 18:40:19 PDT 2007
Like I said earlier, it's a balancing act. On the one side, you have
total anarchy. On the other side, you have a police state. In the
middle, somewhere, you have a society that tries to balance the two.
This would be easy if you could know the future, but you can't. So you
have the choice of how much you restrict the freedoms of someone who
*may* be a danger to themselves or others. How many people make threats
that don't follow up on them? When do you consider someone dangerous?
What kind of controls do you slap on that person? How much is too much?
All I know is that playing the "moral outrage" card right now will not
help. Overreacting will be far worse for us in the long run, imho. If
changes need to be made to the system, let's address them through the
proper channels, without trying to place anyone's head on a platter.
Let's proffer some respect to those who have to make the tough
decisions. It can't be easy, and they simply won't get it right every time.
Paul
J Ford wrote:
> NO! I demand that this community stop hiding its collective head in
> the sand and start facing its problems...which are HUGE!!!
>
> If we let time go by, this, like all other issues this town has, will
> just hit the back burner and there goes any kind of reasonable and
> viable discussion and/or possible resolution(s).
>
> Thompson, among others, has GOT TO GO!!! He is not doing his job, he
> is constantly letting criminals out that should not be allowed to be
> out, he is not following up on his "restrictions" that he places on
> them and now we have three dead people WHO DID NOTHING TO DESERVE this
> kind of action(s) against them not to mention this town did nothing to
> warrant this kind of activity.
>
> So, sorry, but NO I WILL NOT STOP THIS DISCUSSION!! We need to have it
> and we need to start seeking and implementing real changes in this
> town. It is obvious there is a real problem and it will only get worse
> the longer we all pretend it does not exist.
>
>
>
> J :]
>
>
>
>
>
>> From: Paul Rumelhart <godshatter at yahoo.com>
>> To: vision2020 at moscow.com
>> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] what he was shooting
>> Date: Mon, 21 May 2007 20:45:19 -0700
>>
>> It's a balance between freedom and control.
>>
>> And, as others have said, we can discuss our favorite topics after
>> we've had some time to come to terms with this.
>>
>> Paul
>>
>> J Ford wrote:
>>> Is anyone going to speak up for the many, many victims of not only
>>> this man but the others that people such as he who get slaps on the
>>> wrist for crimes that should be receiving life or at the very least,
>>> long, long sentences? If the DA/City Attorney in this community
>>> would do their freaking jobs, this guy would not have been out and
>>> or able to purchase guns much less able to dent this community like
>>> he has.
>>>
>>> How long are we going to take this type of sloppy prosecution in
>>> this community? How many others are going to have to be killed or
>>> harmed because Randy and Thompson and others like them refuse to do
>>> their jobs? How many other criminals are going to be given passes by
>>> Randy and Thompson before we say "ENOUGH! already? How many other
>>> cops are going to have to die before those who are responsible for
>>> your (YES! YOUR) protection are called to the carpet for not doing
>>> what is in OUR best interests?
>>>
>>> Sitler is a ticking time bomb....we have just seen what happens when
>>> that state is allowed to go unchecked and unhindered.
>>>
>>> WAKE UP MOSCOW/LATAH!
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> J :]
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> From: "Matt Decker" <mattd2107 at hotmail.com>
>>>> To: kjajmix1 at msn.com, theceo at optonline.net, areaman at moscow.com,
>>>> vision2020 at moscow.com
>>>> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] what he was shooting
>>>> Date: Mon, 21 May 2007 17:53:38 -0700
>>>>
>>>> All on the vizz,
>>>>
>>>> It has been pointed out, that myself and others should not have
>>>> this discussion at the time being. That this is a time of mourning.
>>>> I too feel sorrow for those closely affected, and couldn't give my
>>>> condolences enough. This is a sorry time for Moscow, a time we can
>>>> hopefully all come together. Its times like these that I feel proud
>>>> to be a moscow native, when we all come together. Along with 9/11
>>>> when the country united.
>>>>
>>>> If people feel our topic was uncalled for I am truly apologetic.
>>>>
>>>> Matt
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> From: keely emerinemix <kjajmix1 at msn.com>
>>>>> To: Frank <theceo at optonline.net>, Dan Carscallen
>>>>> <areaman at moscow.com>, <vision2020 at moscow.com>
>>>>> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] what he was shooting
>>>>> Date: Mon, 21 May 2007 17:22:05 -0700
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I truly wish a discussion like this would not take place now.
>>>>> We've had four people die from gunshot wounds over the weekend,
>>>>> including a friend of my husband's, and another is in serious
>>>>> condition. To invite us to picture the damage a bullet can do to a
>>>>> person is unnecessary, because if we weren't aware before, we
>>>>> surely are now. More important than the velocity, caliber, and
>>>>> physics of a bullet fired from a weapon is the fact that one just
>>>>> killed a cop, our neighbor, who gave his life to protect us.
>>>>> Another silenced a woman who had suffered before from the hands of
>>>>> her husband, another took away from us a dear, sweet man, and,
>>>>> finally here, one ended the horror of a life none of us will ever
>>>>> understand. There will always be much to discuss when it comes to
>>>>> guns and people, but for right now, couldn't we focus on never,
>>>>> ever, forgetting a time when the equation visited us in Moscow and
>>>>> changed forever the relative innocence and calm of our community,
>>>>> taking with it four of our neighbors and injuring two more? We
>>>>> have families in mourning, a church shattered by loss, kids trying
>>>>> to understand, and a community in shock. Blood was shed and two
>>>>> lives were ended at the church my family and I attend. I don't
>>>>> care about the caliber and power of the bullet; I care about
>>>>> appreciating the caliber of men and women we have in uniform and
>>>>> witnessing the power of something much, much greater than hot
>>>>> metal ripping through a chamber.keely> From: theceo at optonline.net>
>>>>> To: areaman at moscow.com; vision2020 at moscow.com> Date: Mon, 21 May
>>>>> 2007 13:11:06 -0400> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] shooter identity .
>>>>> . . And what he was shooting> > As an expert I can speak to this
>>>>> and you're still wrong. The Russian version> AK-47 is most likely
>>>>> the best weapon in the world today. The US Army gave up> the M1
>>>>> Grande which used the 308 round to go to the M14 in about 1962
>>>>> which> used the 7.62x39 round. The difference is the 7.62x39 is a
>>>>> high velocity> round. If you shoot a 308 round through a 55 gal
>>>>> barrel of water it just> punches through to the other side. Then
>>>>> if you take a 7.62x39 round and> shoot it at the barrel and it
>>>>> explodes. The speed is so fast that hydraulics> come into play.
>>>>> You can't compress water so the force blows up the barrel> before
>>>>> it can exit the other side. Now think what that does to a person
>>>>> who> is 90 percent water? The round does a lot of damage before it
>>>>> exits the> body. That is still the round our army uses today. Now
>>>>> which one do you> think has the power and inflicts the most
>>>>> damage? In Nam the Russian AK 47> used a 6.2x54 round. If the
>>>>> communist fighter ran out of ammunition he could> find a dead GI
>>>>> and take his ammunition and use it in his rifle because the> x39
>>>>> was smaller than the x54 and would chamber. However it would not
>>>>> work> the other way because the x54 was too big to chamber in a
>>>>> M16. If you are> really this interested in guns you should go see
>>>>> your army recruiter he can> sign you up for a fore year course.> >
>>>>> THECEO> > -----Original Message-----> From:
>>>>> vision2020-bounces at moscow.com
>>>>> [mailto:vision2020-bounces at moscow.com]On> Behalf Of Dan
>>>>> Carscallen> Sent: Monday, May 21, 2007 3:12 PM> To:
>>>>> vision2020 at moscow.com> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] shooter identity
>>>>> . . . And what he was shooting> > Vizzz peeps,> > After watching
>>>>> the press conference, some of the events of Saturday> night/Sunday
>>>>> morning have become more clear.> > With the initial reports of the
>>>>> shooter using an SKS in the incident, I> was a little confused and
>>>>> concerned as to how it was done, as the> 7.62x39mm cartridge used
>>>>> in that rifle did not seem powerful enough to> have done some of
>>>>> the damage that was said to be inflicted. Now, after> hearing that
>>>>> the shooter also had an M1A, which is a .308 caliber (a> popular
>>>>> hunting caliber), I can understand a little better since this is>
>>>>> a significantly more powerful round than the 7.62X39 by almost
>>>>> 1/3.> This would also explain a bit more the difference in sound
>>>>> between the> shots fired earlier and those fired later.> > Of
>>>>> course, neither of these calibers could be stopped by a
>>>>> "bulletproof"> vest.> > I'm sure Tom Hansen can speak to this, as
>>>>> he's probably had some> experience with the M14 (the military
>>>>> version of the M1A) and maybe even> some time with an AK47 during
>>>>> his time in Germany.> > DC> > >
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