[Vision2020] School Administration and Oversight (from the BLog)
g. crabtree
jampot at adelphia.net
Mon Mar 26 13:02:59 PDT 2007
I'm a little confused. I can contribute nothing to this discussion because
I am not "in this church" but you can make demands for disclosures over and
above what is required by law while also not being a member of the community
in question? I sense a bit of a double standard here.
I, and many other small business people "take money from a group, such as
Christ Church" and many others every day and we are in no way beholden to
divulge the sorts of things you demand. Respectfully, it would seem that it
is you who is having a bit of difficulty coming to grips with a concept.
Try this on for a reason for the difference in the levels of disclosure
between a public and private school. The private school is helped by the
state in the form of a property tax exemption and in return must disclose a
certain, limited amount of information. A public school gets the same
property tax exemption and in addition receives every nickel for its
salaries, maintenance and operation, everything from the taxpayer directly
at the point of a gun. Citizens are not given an option to decline even if
they do not utilize the services of the school dist. As a result they must
disclose greater amount of information to the public. I shouldn't think that
this would be so difficult to wrap your mind around. Greater burden on the
public's purse equals greater need for scrutiny.
g
----- Original Message -----
From: "J Ford" <privatejf32 at hotmail.com>
To: <vision2020 at moscow.com>
Sent: Monday, March 26, 2007 9:54 AM
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] School Administration and Oversight (from the
BLog)
>
> Ah yes - but, if that same organization requests and/or demands that they
> be
> given tax breaks, or they take money from a group, such as Christ Church,
> the members of that church do have a right (and responsibility) to know
> how
> their money is being spent. Therefore, a full disclosure is in order.
>
> You are demanding this be done by the public schools - what is so
> different
> about the "private" schools? I mean, it is public money in that a
> "community" is paying them and it should be available to that
> "community" -
> what is not deservable is a placating "there, there...don't worry your
> head
> about such things" which is EXACTLY what Doug and his bunch do. So,
> question is - WHAT IS BEING HIDDEN by those that are taking the "public"
> monies of this "community" and WHY is it being hidden? What are they
> afraid
> to show - that the "teachers" (who, btw, hold NO degree in teaching and/or
> in the subjects they are teaching) do not deserve the wages? It is Logos'
> scores that are dropping like a rock these last five years - while the
> MSD's
> are rising.
>
> Actually, since you seem unwilling (or unable) to understand this concept,
> I
> think we're done with this. It would be nice if a CC/Logos/NSA person
> would
> respond to this challenge, (as at this point you have nothing of real
> value
> to contribute b/c you're not in this church by your own admittance) but,
> then I am sure Doug has put the word out that they better not. After
> all -
> he's done that before.
>
>
> J :]
>
>
>
>
>
>>From: "g. crabtree" <jampot at adelphia.net>
>>To: "J Ford" <privatejf32 at hotmail.com>, <vision2020 at moscow.com>
>>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] School Administration and Oversight (from the
>>BLog)
>>Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2007 06:27:39 -0700
>>
>>I'm not certain what question you think that it is I'm avoiding. If it's
>>my
>>total compensation, I'm not avoiding your question at all. I'm simply not
>>answering and ignoring it. There is a difference. I will tell you this, A
>>significant amount of it comes from tax dollars as I work for the city,
>>state, and federal government. I work for your bank and I work for the
>>places that you purchase your food and clothing. I work for the place that
>>sold you your vehicle, that services it, that sells you the gas you burn
>>in
>>it, and the tires you roll on. Pretty much every place you part with ten
>>cents I go and retrieve a portion of said dime. Indirectly YOU and other
>>tax payers (assuming you pay any taxes) are paying my wages and I still
>>feel zero need to advise you as to the particulars of my W-9.
>>
>>If you were to attempt to engage my services (unlikely, I know) you would
>>be well with in your right to ask how much we would charge you for that
>>service. You could also ask how much of what I would charge goes to me
>>personally. I would be within my right to tell you or not, at which point
>>you could decide to not hire me based on my answer. The same would apply
>>to
>>people who wish to utilize the services of NSA/Logos. Not every
>>organization that comes in contact with public money is placed in a
>>position where they must be an open book for the public at large nor
>>should
>>it.
>>
>>g
>>----- Original Message -----
>>From: "J Ford" <privatejf32 at hotmail.com>
>>To: <vision2020 at moscow.com>
>>Sent: Sunday, March 25, 2007 10:31 PM
>>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] School Administration and Oversight (from the
>>BLog)
>>
>>
>> >
>> > Again, you avoid the question by poising a diversion - the challenge
>>stands.
>> >
>> > The fact is, these people are paid for out of the pockets of those
>> > whose
>> > children attend those schools and out of the church funds. That makes
>>the
>> > money rather a "public" thing. So, if someone within those groups asks
>>for
>> > an accounting, they should be given it. Point is, that simply does not
>> > happen with this group of "schools".
>> >
>> >
>> > J :]
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >>From: "g. crabtree" <jampot at adelphia.net>
>> >>To: "J Ford" <privatejf32 at hotmail.com>, <vision2020 at moscow.com>
>> >>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] School Administration and Oversight (from the
>> >>BLog)
>> >>Date: Sun, 25 Mar 2007 08:38:11 -0700
>> >>
>> >>Why, exactly, should a private organization be required (forced) to
>> >>disclose
>> >>agreements between itself and private individuals? Is the satisfaction
>>of
>> >>your curiosity so urgent as to compel the revelation of information to
>> >>which
>> >>you have no legitimate reason or need to possess? (which was the point
>>of
>> >>my
>> >>noninvasive and reasonable remarks in the first place)
>> >>
>> >>g
>> >>----- Original Message -----
>> >>From: "J Ford" <privatejf32 at hotmail.com>
>> >>To: <vision2020 at moscow.com>
>> >>Sent: Saturday, March 24, 2007 10:05 PM
>> >>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] School Administration and Oversight (from the
>> >>BLog)
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> >
>> >> > A. Nope.
>> >> >
>> >> > B. I am not paid by anyone publicly nor am I a member of an
>> >>organization
>> >> > that really should be required to disclose this kinda info to those
>> >>paying
>> >> > me. Other churches do so. Those that do pay me know what I am
>> >> > paid.
>> >> > Guarantee you those at CC, parents of those at Logos and NSA do NOT
>>know
>> >> > what their "teachers" are paid much less what benefit packages they
>>get.
>> >> > GUARANTEE!
>> >> >
>> >> > C. If its so "noninvasive and reasonable" - you first! And of
>>course
>> >>the
>> >> > challenge stands - especially since you seem to think it IS
>>"noninvasive
>> >> > and
>> >> > reasonable."
>> >> >
>> >> > J :]
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >>From: "g. crabtree" <jampot at adelphia.net>
>> >> >>To: "J Ford" <privatejf32 at hotmail.com>, <vision2020 at moscow.com>
>> >> >>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] School Administration and Oversight (from
>>the
>> >> >>BLog)
>> >> >>Date: Sat, 24 Mar 2007 21:48:21 -0700
>> >> >>
>> >> >>Perhaps as a demonstration of good faith you'd like to start the
>> >> >>ball
>> >> >>rolling by providing the same information about yourself? A complete
>> >> >>breakdown of the last five years should be adequate to show just how
>> >> >>noninvasive and reasonable you feel this sort of request is.
>> >> >>
>> >> >>g
>> >> >>----- Original Message -----
>> >> >>From: "J Ford" <privatejf32 at hotmail.com>
>> >> >>To: <vision2020 at moscow.com>
>> >> >>Sent: Saturday, March 24, 2007 7:09 PM
>> >> >>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] School Administration and Oversight (from
>>the
>> >> >>BLog)
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >> > Challenge (again) to Dale and all the other bloat-masters at the
>>CC,
>> >> >>Logos
>> >> >> > and NSA - GIVE US YOUR WAGE EARNINGS, which should include any
>> >> >> > and
>> >>all
>> >> >> > benefit packages.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > Also, please include any and all educational background that
>>enables
>> >> >> > you
>> >> >> > to
>> >> >> > be teaching in these "institutions".
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > And lastly, what is Doug Wilson's wages and benefits?
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > Bet we don't see ANY response to this challenge - its been made
>> >>before
>> >> >>and
>> >> >> > we have yet to see any results. Note: ALL said wages and
>> >> >> > bennies
>> >>are
>> >> >> > paid
>> >> >> > for by the patrons of the Christ Church - and they are NOT given
>>any
>> >> >>kind
>> >> >> > of
>> >> >> > break-down or wage/earnings statements on any of the teachers or
>> >>admin
>> >> >> > people in those institutions.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > Put THAT info on your blog, Courtney!
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > J :]
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >>From: "Tom Hansen" <thansen at moscow.com>
>> >> >> >>To: "Vision 2020" <vision2020 at moscow.com>
>> >> >> >>Subject: [Vision2020] School Administration and Oversight (from
>>the
>> >> >>BLog)
>> >> >> >>Date: Sat, 24 Mar 2007 12:42:53 -0700
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >From Dale Courtney's BLog at:
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >>
>> >>http://right-mind.us/blogs/moscoweducation/archive/2007/03/23/50865.aspx#com
>> >> >> >>ments
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >>-----------------------------------------------------------
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >>School District Administration and Oversight
>> >> >> >>The Idaho Office of Performance and Evaluations has posted their
>>most
>> >> >> >>recent
>> >> >> >>"School District Administration and Oversight" report.
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >>Here are some choice quotes about MSD.
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >>Page 14:
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >>While Moscow and Preston had comparable enrollment, Moscow had
>>more
>> >> >> >>schools
>> >> >> >>and a larger number of school administrators and support staff.
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >>.
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >>Boise, Lake Pend Oreille, and Moscow had more administrative
>> >> >> >>staff
>> >>than
>> >> >> >>districts with similar enrollment. Each of these districts
>>received a
>> >> >> >>larger
>> >> >> >>share of their total funding from local sources than did
>> >> >>comparable-sized
>> >> >> >>districts. In addition, these districts generally had more
>> >> >> >>revenue
>> >>per
>> >> >> >>pupil
>> >> >> >>than the comparison districts. All three districts have received
>> >> >> >>funding
>> >> >> >>from supplemental levies approved by local taxpayers.
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >>Comment Notification
>> >> >> >>Send me email alerts for new comments to this post
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >>Subscribe to this post's comments using RSS
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >>Comments
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >># re: School District Administration and Oversight
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >>Friday, March 23, 2007 10:42 PM by Dave
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >>This is an interesting report. It does show clearly MSD staff
>>bloat
>> >> >> >>and
>> >> >> >>the
>> >> >> >>overwhelming MSD reliance on additional funds from local bonds
>>rather
>> >> >>than
>> >> >> >>managing their budget as the other districts do.
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >>One interesting point that should be noted by Tom Hansen, who
>>feels
>> >> >> >>strongly
>> >> >> >>that data should be up to date, is that this study used data from
>>a
>> >> >> >>variety
>> >> >> >>of years. Much of the report used 2002 - 2005 data. Tom should
>>take
>> >> >>note
>> >> >> >>because he posted a Letter to the Editor on V2020 complaining
>> >> >> >>that
>> >> >> >>information on MoscowLevy.com was invalid because it used 2005
>>data.
>> >> >>Will
>> >> >> >>Tom take the Idaho legislature to task for not updating their
>>studies
>> >> >>more
>> >> >> >>frequently? Will Tom call the Idaho legislature study invalid
>> >> >> >>and
>> >> >> >>inaccurate? No - of course not.
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >>---------------------------------------------------------------
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >>The "report" referenced by both Dale Courtney and Dave ("School
>> >> >> >>District
>> >> >> >>Administration and Oversight" report) links to:
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >>http://www.legislature.idaho.gov/ope/publications/reports/r0403.htm
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >>Dave goes on to state:
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >>"Much of the report used 2002 - 2005 data"
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >>Well, Dave. The report (see attached PDF file) is dated January
>>2004
>> >> >>and
>> >> >> >>concerns data accumulated during fiscal year 2002 (July 2001 -
>>June
>> >> >>2002)
>> >> >> >>and fiscal year 2003 (July 2002 - June 2003). The most recent
>>data
>> >> >> >>available from this report is almost FOUR YEARS OLD.
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >>Dave goes on to allude:
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >>"Tom take the Idaho legislature to task for not updating their
>> >>studies
>> >> >> >>more
>> >> >> >>frequently?"
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >>I don't think so, Dave. The fault does not lie with the state
>> >> >>legislature
>> >> >> >>for not providing more recent data. In this case, the problem is
>> >>with
>> >> >>the
>> >> >> >>person (Dale Courtney in this case) who presents such data as
>> >> >> >>up-to-date
>> >> >> >>and
>> >> >> >>accurate.
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >>We shouldn't hold the state legislature responsible for dale
>> >>Courtney's
>> >> >> >>lack
>> >> >> >>of valid research.
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >>Seeya round town, Moscow.
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >>Tom Hansen
>> >> >> >>Moscow, Idaho
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >><< SchDistAdminOver_0104.pdf >>
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >>=======================================================
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>> >> >> >> http://www.fsr.net
>> >> >> >> mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
>> >> >> >>=======================================================
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > _________________________________________________________________
>> >> >> > It's tax season, make sure to follow these few simple tips
>> >> >> >
>> >>
>> >>http://articles.moneycentral.msn.com/Taxes/PreparationTips/PreparationTips.aspx?icid=HMMartagline
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >>
>> >>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >> > =======================================================
>> >> >> > List services made available by First Step Internet,
>> >> >> > serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
>> >> >> > http://www.fsr.net
>> >> >> > mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
>> >> >> > =======================================================
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >>=======================================================
>> >> >> List services made available by First Step Internet,
>> >> >> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
>> >> >> http://www.fsr.net
>> >> >> mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
>> >> >>=======================================================
>> >> >
>> >> > _________________________________________________________________
>> >> > 5.5%* 30 year fixed mortgage rate. Good credit refinance. Up to 5
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>> >> >
>> >> > =======================================================
>> >> > List services made available by First Step Internet,
>> >> > serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
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>> >> > mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
>> >> > =======================================================
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>=======================================================
>> >> List services made available by First Step Internet,
>> >> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
>> >> http://www.fsr.net
>> >> mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
>> >>=======================================================
>> >
>> > _________________________________________________________________
>> > It's tax season, make sure to follow these few simple tips
>> >
>>http://articles.moneycentral.msn.com/Taxes/PreparationTips/PreparationTips.aspx?icid=HMMartagline
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>
>> > =======================================================
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>> > mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
>> > =======================================================
>
>
>>=======================================================
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>> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
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>> mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
>>=======================================================
>
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