[Vision2020] Fantasy vs. Reality Fourth Installment

Fri Mar 9 15:51:43 PST 2007

Keely, of course, says it all better than I....
however, I do have one comment on this issue of imprecatory prayer.
When Keely was debating Doug Wilson recently on KRFP, I called and asked
specifically about Doug's use of imprecatory prayer.  He denied that he ever
prayed that people would suffer, as Job had suffered.
His denial is very different from the more recent statements on his website
quoted here earlier....
I wonder which time he was telling the truth...BL

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "keely emerinemix" <kjajmix1 at msn.com>
To: <heirdoug at netscape.net>; <sunilramalingam at hotmail.com>;
<vision2020 at moscow.com>
Sent: Friday, March 09, 2007 1:46 PM
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Fantasy vs. Reality Fourth Installment

> Doug, why is it so important to you and yours to defend -- and to do so
> pretty badly -- your duty to pray imprecatorily against others?
>
> I don't think I've ever read anything from you about the Christian's duty
to
> advocate for and serve the poor.  You're remarkably silent on Christians
and
> their participation in and benefit from unjust systems of racism,
classism,
> and sexism.  You are downright reticent when it comes to the call to
preach
> the Gospel and you're virtually silent when it comes to denial of self and
> submitting yourself to those around you in humility and peace.  Nope, you
> seem consumed with a gospel that, in your hands, has as its hallmark
> belligerence and mockery.  You're sharp as a tack on what most Christians
> would call matters of either little consequence or great potential for
> unnecessary division.  I've never heard of anyone whose idea of
proclaiming
> Christ and his message was to badger people about their baptisms, insist
on
> vindictive and vicious prayer prerogatives, wax eloquent about mandatory
> Psalm singing, crow about his  virility and potency, and generally make a
> mess of anything that even remotely points to a Gospel of reconciliation.
>
> So, again -- why is imprecatory prayer so critical to your worldview?  In
> your many years as a disciple of Jesus Christ, is this the nugget of
wisdom
> you've come away with?  I cannot imagine anyone defending a disciple's
> imperative of imprecatory prayer, period, but to do so with the energy and
> passion you show is beyond perplexing.
>
> It says infinitely more about you than it does about Jesus . . .
>
> keely
>
>
> From: heirdoug at netscape.net
> To: sunilramalingam at hotmail.com, vision2020 at moscow.com
> Subject: [Vision2020]  Fantasy vs. Reality Fourth Installment
> Date: Fri, 09 Mar 2007 15:01:21 -0500
>
> Sunil,
>
> Maybe we can agree that the word's of my Lord Jesus Christ might not be
> a clear example of impacation because you might say that he was God and
> we are not. His speaking through the Psalmist in Psalm 22 and Psalm 69
> (in the first person) would be claimed by some as not His words alone.
> The Lord Jesus taught and practiced unconditional love, but He also
> imprecated the unbelieving cities of Capernaum, Chorazin and Bethsaida.
> He said that they were under greater judgment than Tyre, Sidon or
> Sodom! (See Matthew 11:20-24.)
>
> As far as other New Testament prayers and pronouncements:
>
> "If anyone does not love the Lord, let him be accursed" (1 Corinthians
> 16:22)
>
> Galatians 1:8-9. "But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach
> a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let him be eternally
> condemned! As we have already said, so now I say again: If anybody is
> preaching to you a gospel other than what you accepted, let him be
> eternally condemned!"
>
> And my favorite passage of all of the saints in the Church praying this
> type of prayer we only have to look to the last book as published in
> the Bible: "How long, O Lord, holy and true, until You judge the
> inhabitants of the earth and avenge our blood?" (See Revelation 6:10.)
>
> There may be others; we are told in the NT to sing and pray from the
> Psalms. I take this to mean that we should have an attitude of prayer
> when we worship and sing from the psalms.
>
> I have tried to make this clear. I hope this helps
>
> lemeno, Doug!
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> -------
>
> Doug won't answer you because it would show Dog W to be the non-leader
> he
> is.
>
> NO! Those type of prayers are certainly not in the NT - in fact, as was
> pointed out by someone earlier, Jesus specifically tells us to pray for
> good
> things for our enemies and to show them the kind of kindness we want to
> be
> shown.
>
> A lesson a non-ordained pastor knows little about.
>
> J :]
>
>
>
>
>
>  >From: "Sunil Ramalingam" <sunilramalingam at hotmail.com>
>  >To: Vision2020 at moscow.com
>  >Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Fantasy vs. Reality Fourth Installment
>  >Date: Fri, 09 Mar 2007 11:31:06 -0800
>  >
>  >Doug,
>  >
>  >Are imprecatory prayers encouraged in the New Testament?
>  >
>  >Sunil
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