[Vision2020] Fantasy vs. Reality Fourth Installment

Fri Mar 9 14:46:17 PST 2007

Keely,

You are right that I am not very adept at "Cat Fighting". You on the  
other hand must have had a lot of practice in Jr. High.

I am not defending my duty to anything. You are the main one on this  
list who says that the practice is abhorrent. All that I am doing is  
showing that all of scripture should be obeyed not just the fluffy, nice  
parts.

When some one states that something is not in the NT when it in fact is,  
I find myself wanting to point out the error of their misconception.

As to my not having subdued conception in my family practice, I crow  
ever more.

As to your concern about my Christian duty to advocate for and serve the  
poor; you see Keely, I try to follow these scriptures as well “don’t let  
your left hand know what your right hand is doing” and again “don’t be  
like the Pharisees, who go about with a posse and one of those giant  
charity checks, letting folks know that they have helped out the poor”….

I was just wondering what you meant by your comment of “wax eloquent  
about mandatory Psalm singing”. Again I ask: “Did I say that the Bible  
say’s we are to only sing Psalms?” It IS the first thing that we should  
do. “Psalms and Hymns and Spiritual Songs”. But I never stated it is the  
only thing to do.

Lastly, you are always the champion for women to exercise their gifts so  
as to not be left out of service to God. What ever happened to obeying  
the other passage that talks about “your beauty should not come from  
outward adornment, such as braided hair and the wearing of gold jewelry  
and fine clothes. Instead, it should be that of your inner self, the  
unfading beauty of a gentle and quiet spirit, which is of great worth in  
God's sight. For this is the way the holy women of the past who put  
their hope in God used to make themselves atractive.” That would go a  
long way in furthering the Kingdom of God.

lemeno, Doug!

-----Original Message-----
From: kjajmix1 at msn.com
To: heirdoug at netscape.net; sunilramalingam at hotmail.com;  
vision2020 at moscow.com
Sent: Fri, 9 Mar 2007 2:46 PM
Subject: RE: [Vision2020] Fantasy vs. Reality Fourth Installment

Doug, why is it so important to you and yours to defend -- and to do so  
pretty badly -- your duty to pray imprecatorily against others?

I don't think I've ever read anything from you about the Christian's  
duty to advocate for and serve the poor. You're remarkably silent on  
Christians and their participation in and benefit from unjust systems of  
racism, classism, and sexism. You are downright reticent when it comes  
to the call to preach the Gospel and you're virtually silent when it  
comes to denial of self and submitting yourself to those around you in  
humility and peace. Nope, you seem consumed with a gospel that, in your  
hands, has as its hallmark belligerence and mockery. You're sharp as a  
tack on what most Christians would call matters of either little  
consequence or great potential for unnecessary division. I've never  
heard of anyone whose idea of proclaiming Christ and his message was to  
badger people about their baptisms, insist on vindictive and vicious  
prayer prerogatives, wax eloquent about mandatory Psalm singing, crow  
about his virility and potency, and generally make a mess of anything  
that even remotely points to a Gospel of reconciliation.

So, again -- why is imprecatory prayer so critical to your worldview? In  
your many years as a disciple of Jesus Christ, is this the nugget of  
wisdom you've come away with? I cannot imagine anyone defending a  
disciple's imperative of imprecatory prayer, period, but to do so with  
the energy and passion you show is beyond perplexing.

It says infinitely more about you than it does about Jesus . . .

keely

From: heirdoug at netscape.net
To: sunilramalingam at hotmail.com, vision2020 at moscow.com
Subject: [Vision2020] Fantasy vs. Reality Fourth Installment
Date: Fri, 09 Mar 2007 15:01:21 -0500

Sunil,

Maybe we can agree that the word's of my Lord Jesus Christ might not be
a clear example of impacation because you might say that he was God and
we are not. His speaking through the Psalmist in Psalm 22 and Psalm 69
(in the first person) would be claimed by some as not His words alone.
The Lord Jesus taught and practiced unconditional love, but He also
imprecated the unbelieving cities of Capernaum, Chorazin and Bethsaida.
He said that they were under greater judgment than Tyre, Sidon or
Sodom! (See Matthew 11:20-24.)

As far as other New Testament prayers and pronouncements:

"If anyone does not love the Lord, let him be accursed" (1 Corinthians
16:22)

Galatians 1:8-9. "But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach
a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let him be eternally
condemned! As we have already said, so now I say again: If anybody is
preaching to you a gospel other than what you accepted, let him be
eternally condemned!"

And my favorite passage of all of the saints in the Church praying this
type of prayer we only have to look to the last book as published in
the Bible: "How long, O Lord, holy and true, until You judge the
inhabitants of the earth and avenge our blood?" (See Revelation 6:10.)

There may be others; we are told in the NT to sing and pray from the
Psalms. I take this to mean that we should have an attitude of prayer
when we worship and sing from the psalms.

I have tried to make this clear. I hope this helps

lemeno, Doug!

------------------------------------------------------------------------- 

-------

Doug won't answer you because it would show Dog W to be the non-leader
he
is.

NO! Those type of prayers are certainly not in the NT - in fact, as was
pointed out by someone earlier, Jesus specifically tells us to pray for
good
things for our enemies and to show them the kind of kindness we want to
be
shown.

A lesson a non-ordained pastor knows little about.

J :]

>From: "Sunil Ramalingam" <sunilramalingam at hotmail.com>
>To: Vision2020 at moscow.com
>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Fantasy vs. Reality Fourth Installment
>Date: Fri, 09 Mar 2007 11:31:06 -0800
>
>Doug,
>
>Are imprecatory prayers encouraged in the New Testament?
>
>Sunil
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