[Vision2020] [Bulk] Re: Fantasy vs. Reality Fourth Installment
Art Deco
deco at moscow.com
Thu Mar 8 11:58:33 PST 2007
Sue and Paul have made some apt comments that point out the blatant disconnect between the exhortations of Cultmaster Douglas Wilson and the words and intentions of Christ.
There are many comments that can be made about Wilson's harangue urging imprecatory prayer. I will limit myself to just three. [Please bear in mind that I am not a believer, but simply making a short logical analysis of what has been written.]
I. Wilson's hate-filled diatribe is directly contradictory to the words of Christ found in Matthew.
The cites from Matthew in the original post contain the following:
"But if anyone strikes you on the right cheek, turn the other also; and if anyone wants to sue you and take your coat, give your cloak as well; and if anyone forces you to go one mile, go also the second mile.
"You have heard that it was said, 'You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.'
But I say to you, Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, so that you may be children of your Father in heaven; for he makes his sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the righteous and on the unrighteous.
Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect".
Matthew is the first book of The New Testament. The vast majority of contemporary biblical scholars agree that Matthew most likely contains the most accurate rendering of the words spoken by Christ.
Historically, what made the teachings of Christ very different from, in fact revolutionary with the religious tradition from whence he came was the very passages cited below in the original post and in part above. Hate is to be replaced by love, compassion, and acts clearly demonstrating such. Followers are to won by showing love and patience in words and actions, not by wishing the unbelievers evil or smiting or killing them.
It would be hard to find a more glaring example of Anti-Christ philosophy than that found in Wilson's urgings to his ovine , needful flock. Christ would most likely weep at such a libelous, cruel, antithetical use of his teachings. I suspect that most sincere Christians would not only weep but be outraged.
Wilson's web-blot is a public document. In making this public prayer, Wilson again shows his disconnect wit the urgings of Christ not to pray in public.
"And whenever you pray, do not be like the hypocrites; for they love to stand and pray in the synagogues and at the street corners, so that they may be seen by others. Truly I tell you, they have received their reward.
But whenever you pray, go into your room and shut the door and pray to your Father who is in secret; and your Father who sees in secret will reward you."
II. Exhortative prayer is a direct, hypocritical denial of the alleged properties of the alleged God of the Wilson & Family's Christless Crackpot Cult & Cash Machine.
At the website of Credenda Agenda, part of the ministry of Wilson & Family's Christless Crackpot Cult & Cash Machine we find the following in the statement of faith: [Reader's might find it very revealing to read the entire statement of faith.]
http://www.credenda.org/statement_of_faith.php
"I believe God is a Spirit, infinite, eternal, and unchangeable in his being, wisdom, power, holiness, justice, goodness, and truth; I believe there is but one true and living God;..."
"We believe that there is one God, eternally existent in three Persons; Father, Son and Holy Spirit. He is omnipotent, that is, He is all-powerful. He is omnipresent, that is, He is present throughout all Creation but not limited by it. He is omniscient, that is, nothing is hidden from His sight. In all things He is limited by nothing other than His own nature and character. We believe the God we serve is holy, righteous, good, severe, loving and full of mercy. He created the heavens and earth, and everything in them, in the space of six ordinary days, and all very good. He is the Creator, Sustainer, and Governor of everything that has been made."
Briefly, Wilson's alleged God is all-powerful, all-knowing, and created the universe accordingly.
Why then does Wilson think it necessary to tell/instruct through imprecatory prayer this alleged omniscient, omnipotent God what to do? Does Wilson think he is smarter than this God? Does Wilson really believe that his alleged God is so stupid and blind that it/she/he cannot run the universe without Wilson's guidance even thought it/he/she created it without Wilson's guidance? Is it then Wilson's job to pass judgment on all, imposes sentences, and then instruct his alleged God to carry out the execution of Wilson's orders like some slow-witted, bumbling, helpless hand-slave?
The words "egomania", "megalomania", "delusional", and "con artistry" come to mind among many others.
III. There are much, much better models for those needing and seeking spiritual solace and ways to birth goodness than those promulgated by the Wilson & Family's Christless Crackpot Cult & Cash Machine.
Part of the Hippocratic Oath says in effect: "First do no harm."
Although I am not a believer, I can see that certain religious beliefs and the actions resulting from them have not only an uplifting, comforting effect on their believers, but can also motivate in part a great amount of good for humankind, animalkind, and the world in general. Unfortunately, such is not true of all religious beliefs, leaders, and practitioners, as we can clearly see from the example of Wilson's views on imprecatory prayer which is no different from the curse uttered by some adherents of Islam: "Death to the infidels."
For those needing and seeking spiritual solace, and to have their actions proceed from such, the words of Anthony Storr might help guide their search in part:
"If there is one message I want to convey, it is to distrust characters who are both deeply self-absorbed and also authoritarian. ... All authorities, whether political or spiritual, should be distrusted, and extremely authoritarian characters who divide the world into 'us' and 'them', who preach there is only one way forward, or who believe they are surrounded by enemies, are particularly to be avoided. It is not necessary to be dogmatic to be effective. The charisma of certainty is a snare which entraps the child who is latent in us all.
If anyone is in urgent need of help or guidance, let him find someone who will listen rather than preach; someone who will encourage him to look inward and find out what he as a unique individual thinks and believes, rather than accepting some guru's [spiritual leader's] dogma.
If anyone is looking for the joy of working with others toward a common goal, let him join one of the many organizations devoted to helping refugees, the poor, the sick, and the unfortunate. Such organizations need no guru [spiritual leader], and those who join them need have no religious affiliation. The wish to help one's fellow men is not confined to believers."
Wayne A. Fox
1009 Karen Lane
PO Box 9421
Moscow, ID 83843
(208) 882-7975
waf at moscow.com
----- Original Message -----
From: Paul Rumelhart
To: Vision2020 at moscow.com
Sent: Thursday, March 08, 2007 7:59 AM
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] [Bulk] Re: Fantasy vs. Reality Fourth Installment
After reading through that prayer, I have a few questions. The first and foremost is: do members of Christ Church really think that the people who have expressed disagreement with the church can really be categorized as "enemies"? From my wishy-washy liberal views on such things, the talk of death by hanging, blindness, and such seems a bit overkill for a simple disagreement.
Wouldn't a true enemy of your god have to actually believe in your god enough to actually oppose His true nature? I can't imagine why you think it would be a good thing to have your god smite someone that you have simply failed to convince of God's true nature and existence. Since your god stays in the shadows and not out in the daylight, the burden is on you to make us believe. Praying mean things for someone that you have failed to convince sounds a bit arrogant to me, actually, and I wouldn't be surprised if your god simply rolls his eyes whenever He hears one of these prayers. I would, at a minimum. If I had even a small sense of humor, I would smite everything asked for back on the asker since that is basically what they are asking for themselves.
Paul
Sue Hovey wrote:
Now at this point, does Job's wife just shake her finger at him and say, "Curse God and die?" Seems appropriate somehow.
Sue Hovey
----- Original Message -----
From: News of Christ Cult
To: Vision2020 at moscow.com
Sent: Wednesday, March 07, 2007 8:35 AM
Subject: [Vision2020] Fantasy vs. Reality Fourth Installment
Fantasy:
http://www.dougwils.com/index.asp?Action=Anchor&CategoryID=1&BlogID=3162
A Prayer of Imprecation
Topic: Liturgical Notes [Douglas Wilson]
One of the easiest things in the world to misunderstand (and therefore to misrepresent) is the biblical pattern of imprecatory prayer. It is very easy to interpret the practice as some kind of primitive voodoo doll custom, practiced only by the petty and vindictive. But for those who are open to a very fine treatment of the subject, I would recommend John Day's book, Crying for Justice. Over the last few years, the fact that we have prayed this way has been seized on by some of our adversaries as proof-positive that we obviously are crazed fundamentalists. But fundamentalism is the practice of absolutizing bits and pieces of Scripture. Liberalism is the absolutizing of other portions. To their credit, the fundamentalists at least knew that the death of Christ on the cross was more important than than Pharaoh offered the Israelites full employment benefits, but the fundamentalist vision is still truncated for all that. But what happens when we submissively come to tota et sola Scriptura? Imprecation is part of it. Below is a sample prayer of imprecation, so those who are wondering if a biblical Christian could ever pray this way can read through one and see for themselves. But I think that the real question needs to be presented to those Christians who never have occasion to pray this way.
Father of Jesus Christ, our gracious God, we cry out to You in a time of trouble. Our adversaries come at us with lies, lies that they delight to tell, fluent lies, as their father tells them, in their native language.
We pray that You would return to them seven-fold, according to all that they have done or said or hoped for, and all according to the promises of Your holy Word. Grant to them shame of face, so that they might turn back to You and seek Your name. We would not be like Jonah, resentful or afraid of Your grace to other sinners, even to those who have sinned grievously against us.
You have taught us, called us, summoned us, to love our enemies, to bless those who curse us, to rejoice when we are mistreated by them, and to return good for evil. We are not to return evil for evil, but rather to overcome evil with good. We accept this and rejoice in it. We know and understand that this is based on Your holy character and example—You give rain and sunlight to the righteous and unrighteous both—and that this is therefore Your standard of holiness for us, and we gladly submit to it. We therefore seek the grace to continue to love our enemies, asking You to save them. Not only would we be saved from their treachery and lies, but we ask that You would save them from their treachery and lies.
In praying this way, we ask that we would be able to distinguish sharply between those who are our personal enemies, and those who are our enemies for Your name's sake. We pray that we would extend nothing but wholehearted grace to the former, and that we would commit the terrors of strict justice, with regard to the latter, entirely and only to You. We would not be like the disciples who, caught up in their mistaken zeal, did not know "what spirit they were of." We would ask nothing from You in this that Your Word does not specifically invite us to ask. You are a God who keeps covenant to a thousand generations, and we are asking You to keep Your covenant word. If justice falling on the heads of our enemies is not a promise of covenant justice, Lord, we don't want to ask for it. But if it is such a promise, we dare not refuse to ask. How long, Lord, will You leave in sin those who mistreat Your people in this way?
If it is not Your sovereign purpose to destroy them through saving grace, we pray that You would humiliate them and give them shame of face regardless. We pray that they would fall into the pit they have purposefully dug for us. We pray that You would turn all their plans and purposes upside down. Like Haman, we pray that they would be hanged on the gallows they have built for Your people. You are the judge of the whole earth; will You not do right? How long will You delay in bringing justice to the earth? Doesn't it bother You that Your name and Your people are treated this way? We know that You are everlastingly good; why are You silent in that goodness? We know that You have promised to justify and vindicate Your people; rise up, Lord, and scatter Your enemies!
Father, we pray that You would deal with this situation. If it is Your good pleasure to deal with it through saving them, then that is what we would by far prefer, and it is what we ask for. But if it is not Your good pleasure to save them, we ask that You would cut them off in their course of sinning regardless, and that You would not allow their iniquity to come to its full measure. Set limits to Your judgment on them. We pray that You would set limits to that judgment by setting limits to their lies and treachery. We pray, Father, that You would cut them off in the midst of their sin.
We ask that You would deliver us from their snares in a way that showcases Your final and ultimate vindication and justification of us, together with all Your people. We know that we are sinners, and that many just and righteous accusations could be brought against us. For the sake of Christ, we pray that we would be justified concerning all that we have done that is wrong and wicked. But because Christ is our Protector as well as Savior, we pray that we would be vindicated and justified with regard to all that we have not done wrong. You chastise us for our sins, but that is not why these evil men and women attack us—they attack us because we love what is good, and because we trust in You.
Father, we pray that the angel of the Lord would chase them down. We pray that You would set for them a dark and slippery place, and that the angel of the Lord would persecute them there. They have hated us without any just cause at all, and they have devised all their plots without any good reason. We ask You therefore to rise up and defend us. Stand in the pass behind us, and lower Your spear against them. Turn them back from their wicked attacks. Rout them, we pray. Chase them like chaff in a stiff wind. We pray that You would string Your bow, sharpen Your sword, make ready all the instruments of death. Ordain Your arrows to fly against those who persecute the righteous. Make their mischief to roll back on their own impudent heads.
Those who hate us without cause are more than the hairs of our heads, and yet, Lord, we know that You have all those hairs numbered. You number and name, and note, their hatreds. You know our foolishness; You know our sinfulness, and You also know that our sin is not why we are being attacked. Rather it is for Your sake, and our identification with You. Let their table become poisonous to them, let it become a snare. Let their eyes be darkened, and judicial blindness fall upon them.
We pray that their eyes would be blinded by You; strike them so that they cannot see. Father, we pray that You would make their loins shake continuously, that they would be seized with fear and amazement. Pour out hot indignation all over them; take hold of them tightly in Your wrathful anger. May their dwellings become empty and desolate—for whenever You chastise anyone else, they love to pile on as though You were not there. They persecute the one that You are disciplining, and by their talk they dismay the one who is suffering under Your hand. Add iniquity to their iniquity; make a great heap of their sins. Do not let them enter into Your righteousness. Blot them out of the book of the living. Do not record their names alongside the names of the righteous.
God of our praise, do not hold Your peace. The mouths of the wicked and the mouths of the deceitful have joined in chorus together, and they are speaking against us with lying tongue. They are surrounding us with words of hatred, and they fight against us without good reason. It is because we love You that they are our adversaries, but we still give ourselves to prayer. Not only have we incurred their hostility by loving You, but we have also loved them, and have been treacherously betrayed by them. They returned evil for good, and hatred for love, ingratitude for kindness.
Let these wicked men come under the rule and reign of wicked men. Let Satan be continually at their right hand, accusing them. When they come into judgment, when the trial comes, we pray that the verdict of guilty would be rendered. When they cry out to You, let their prayers be reckoned as sinful. When they pray to You, let the ceiling above them remain silent. Cut short their days. When they have abused offices within Your Church, let other faithful men rise up to take their place.
Let their children be orphaned, cut off without a father. Let their wives be widows, and we pray that their children would be desolate, having to beg their bread in empty places. We pray that the extortioner would come back at them, catching them in their plots, and taking all that they have. May strangers and aliens pillage them and leave them with nothing. We pray that when this happens, and Your hand is evident, that no one would show mercy, and that no kindness would be extended to his fatherless children. Cut off his posterity; may his name and his line come to nothing. Recall how sinful his father was, and call up again the sins of his mother. May their sins come before Your throne continually so that their name may be blotted out, and remembered on the earth no more.
We ask for this because he is merciless. He loved to kick the poor and downtrodden, and sought to kill the broken-hearted. He loved cursing, and so give him that cursing. He detested blessing, so let blessing remain far away from him. He would put on curses like a comfortable coat; let those curses of his seep into him deeply. Tie those curses around him permanently. Let this be the clothing of all our enemies.
Let them curse, so long as You bless. When they get up in the morning, and hear of the blessings You have bestowed on us, let them be greatly ashamed. Let confusion cover over them completely, as though it were a mantle. I pray that You stand at our right hand, and that You would always save us from those who would condemn our souls.
We offer this pray to You in the righteous and holy name of the Lord Jesus Christ, and amen.
Reality:
Gods' Word from Matthew 5: 38 through 48
"You have heard that it was said, 'An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth.'
But I say to you, Do not resist an evildoer.
But if anyone strikes you on the right cheek, turn the other also; and if anyone wants to sue you and take your coat, give your cloak as well; and if anyone forces you to go one mile, go also the second mile.
Give to everyone who begs from you, and do not refuse anyone who wants to borrow from you.
"You have heard that it was said, 'You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.'
But I say to you, Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, so that you may be children of your Father in heaven; for he makes his sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the righteous and on the unrighteous.
For if you love those who love you, what reward do you have? Do not even the tax collectors do the same?
And if you greet only your brothers and sisters, what more are you doing than others? Do not even the Gentiles do the same?
Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect".
Gods' Word from Matthew 6: 4 through 8
"And whenever you pray, do not be like the hypocrites; for they love to stand and pray in the synagogues and at the street corners, so that they may be seen by others. Truly I tell you, they have received their reward.
But whenever you pray, go into your room and shut the door and pray to your Father who is in secret; and your Father who sees in secret will reward you.
"When you are praying, do not heap up empty phrases as the Gentiles do; for they think that they will be heard because of their many words.
Do not be like them, for your Father knows what you need before you ask him."
--
Juanita Flores
Advocate for the Truth from Jesus
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List services made available by First Step Internet,
serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
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serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
http://www.fsr.net
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