[Vision2020] Christ is Our Commander-in-Chief or not!

J Ford privatejf32 at hotmail.com
Thu Jun 7 19:17:23 PDT 2007 

Dougie-Boy his-self says Nick was his advisor at some point if not for his 
entire time at UI - A PUBLIC INSTITUTION, I might add, that he received his 
degree IN PHILOSOPHY (not theology!!!)....so either he's lying (What!?  
Impossible!) or, well...whatever.



J  :]





>From: heirdoug at netscape.net
>To: privatejf32 at hotmail.com, vision2020 at moscow.com
>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Christ is Our Commander-in-Chief or not!
>Date: Thu, 07 Jun 2007 13:03:26 -0400
>
>J :p
>
>Aren't your forgetting that Nick was just the department head and not
>Doug Wilson's advisor?
>
>But of course that is different!
>
>D ;{|
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: J Ford <privatejf32 at hotmail.com>
>To: heirdoug at netscape.net; vision2020 at moscow.com
>Sent: Wed, 6 Jun 2007 6:53 pm
>Subject: RE: [Vision2020] Christ is Our Commander-in-Chief or not!
>
>
>Are you forgetting that Dougie-boy was a student/mentee of Nick's? That
>he graduated under the tutalage of Nick?! 
> 
>But of course that is different, now isn't it?! 
> 
>J :] 
> 
> 
> 
> >From: heirdoug at netscape.net 
> >To: vision2020 at moscow.com, nickgier at adelphia.net 
> >Subject: [Vision2020] Christ is Our Commander-in-Chief or not! 
> >Date: Wed, 06 Jun 2007 17:26:28 -0400 
> > 
> >Dear Lounge Lizard, 
> > 
> >You are correct that most all of what Nick Gier writes is of no impact 
> >on the community as a whole. As a matter of fact very few people ever 
> >read his twaddle. If it weren't for Blind 2020 "Teach" wouldn't have 
> >any thing to do. But it is not what he writes but what he taught over 
> >the past 35 years that has grave consequences! 
> > 
> >What I did find out by reading the latest installment (yes I forced my 
> >self to actually look at the words that he put together) is that he 
> >left out some pretty substantial numbers of deaths from the recent 
> >world history. 
> > 
> >Maybe with the following statistics Nick can expand the pages of his 
> >new work to over 65 pages: 
> > 
> >The number of allied soldiers killed in the D-Day invasion (53,714) is 
> >the same number as were killed in the world in the past 9 hours by 
> >abortion. 
> > 
> >In the first year of the Iraq war we lost 589 brave men and women.
>That 
> >is the same number as were destroyed in the last 6 min. 
> > 
> >In the past 34 years, about the time that Nick Gier started his 
> >venerated career as a "Professional Philosopher", 44,388,860 living 
> >innocent babies had their lives snuffed out by abortion. Maybe some of 
> >the mothers who were deceived into believing they were doing the right 
> >thing were former students of Nick's, cheered on by his continual 
> >droning that what they were carrying was not a real person, YET! Just 
> >one fine example of his past teaching. I'm sure that can still find it 
> >at www.class.uidaho.edu/ngier! 
> > 
> >Way to go teach. Please be our guest to continue the madness! 
> > 
> >Doug Farris (So there is no confusion as to who wrote this.) 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> >------------------------------------------------------------------------
>- 
> >------- 
> > 
> >Why is it relevant with regard to HOW MANY individuals were killed by 
> >such-and-such people of a certain faith. Isn't it the simple act of 
> >killing and the reason behind the killing that is of importance? 
> >Keeping scorecards of "number killed" by "faith/belief structure"
>seems 
> >a bit sophomoric if the ultimate issue is to address the REASON behind 
> >the killing. Is one faith more evil or despicable because it killed 
> >2,000 more than another for the exact same reason? 
> > 
> >Furthermore, what does Gier's post really have to do with the stated 
> >objective of Vision 2020: "Moscow Vision 2020 is an informal, 
> >multi-partisan group of Moscow residents formed in 1993 to encourage 
> >more public information and debate about the future of Moscow and
>Latah 
> >County." I fail to comprehend where Gier's post, as well as many other 
> >posted here, has any connection with Moscow or Latah County. It
>appears 
> >that several posters use the board as a soapbox to spout off their own 
> >partisan or religious beliefs, or, in this case, to develop a thesis, 
> >without connecting how their post relates to Moscow's or Latah
>County's 
> >future. 
> > 
> >nickgier at adelphia.net wrote: Good Morning: 
> > 
> >I would like to thank Gary Crabtree for the inspiration for this
>week's 
> >KRFP radio commentary. 
> > 
> >Nick Gier 
> > 
> >CHRIST IS OUR COMMANDER-IN-CHIEF: 
> >RELATIVE VIOLENCE IN ISLAM AND CHRISTIANITY 
> > 
> >I'm writing a book on the origins of religious violence and my thesis 
> >is that there has been far more religiously motivated violence in the 
> >Abrahamic religions—Judaism, Christianity, and
>Islam—than the >Asian 
> >religions. Draft chapters can be viewed at 
> >www.class.uidaho.edu/ngier/orv.htm. 
> > 
> >A person on our local list-serve Vision2020 had this to say about 
> >relative violence in Islam and Christianity: 
> > 
> >"Up to the eleventh century Islam had a sizable lead. From 1095 to
>1291 
> >the Church picked up the pace and nosed ahead. It was neck and neck 
> >till 1834 and the end of the Spanish Inquisition. After that Allah's 
> >chosen made it no contest." 
> > 
> >There are more than a few problems with this summary history. 
> > 
> >Islam could not possibly have had any sort of lead before the 11th 
> >Century because Christianity had a very good head start. Under 
> >Theodosius I, being a pagan was a capital crime, and even Christians 
> >were arrested if they practiced even the most minor of pagan
>practices. 
> > 
> >On December 25, 390, Theodosius ordered the slaughter of 7,000 pagans 
> >in Thessalonica. The British historian Hugh Trevor Roper called 
> >Theodosius "the first Spanish Inquisitor," and "the Christian monarch 
> >who introduced the world to religious totalitarianism." 
> > 
> >Bishop Ambrose, who baptized St. Augustine, made Theodosius do penance 
> >for the atrocities at Thessalonica, but he still proclaimed that 
> >"Christ was now at the head of the [Roman] legions." 
> > 
> >This reminds me of the sign outside a fundamentalist church in L.A., 
> >right after the invasion of Iraq: "Christ is our Commander-in-Chief." 
> >I'm assuming that our born-again president would have to agree with 
> >this demotion. 
> > 
> >Under Muslim rule Jews and Christians were generally asked to offer a 
> >special tax, not their heads. The slaughter of 4,000 Jews in Muslim 
> >Granada in 1066 was the exception rather than the rule, and Jews 
> >generally had much better lives in Muslim Spain than anywhere else in 
> >Christian Europe. 
> > 
> >In 1099, men, women, and children were slaughtered indiscriminately 
> >when Christian forces captured Jerusalem. An eyewitness reported that 
> >the Crusaders "rode in blood up to their knees and bridle reins. 
> >Indeed, it was a just and splendid judgment of God that this place 
> >should be filled with the blood of the unbelievers, since it had 
> >suffered so long from their blasphemies." 
> > 
> >When Saladin retook the city in 1187, Christians were only required to 
> >pay a ransom and then free to return home. Some of Saladin's officers 
> >paid for those who could not afford it, and about 7,000 others were 
> >sold into slavery. 
> > 
> >In Muslim India Buddhist and Hindus were, incredibly enough, declared 
> >"People of the Book," and the tax on non-Muslims was only sporadically 
> >enforced and even more infrequently collected. 
> > 
> >Most of the ancestors of Muslims in Pakistan, Bangladesh (especially 
> >here), India, Indonesia, and Malaysia freely converted to Islam. Areas 
> >in India where forced conversions were attempted are now the places 
> >where one finds the fewest Muslims per capita. 
> > 
> >Some Mughal emperors ordered the destruction of Hindu and Buddhist 
> >temples, but local resistance and intimidated Mughal functionaries 
> >meant that relatively few temples were liquidated. Early Christian 
> >emperors were much more successful in destroying pagan temples, 
> >including the one in Alexandria that housed the finest library in the 
> >ancient world. 
> > 
> >Curiously, the Vision2020 post above ended Christian atrocities in 
> >1834, but during the Taiping Rebellion, Chinese Christian armies were 
> >responsible for killing 10-20 million people between 1852-1864. I
>would 
> >hazard a guess that more Daoist, Buddhist, and Confucian temples were 
> >destroyed by the Taipings in 12 years than 600 years of Muslim rule in 
> >India. 
> > 
> >Some have claimed that the Taipings were not really Christians, but 
> >that is simply not the case. They took great pains to eliminate
>Chinese 
> >religious influences; they enforced the 10 Commandments at the point
>of 
> >a sword; and they followed the Bible very carefully, including the 
> >prophecies in the Book of Revelation. 
> > 
> >Short of Osama bin Laden getting several nukes and using them, 
> >militant Muslims have a long way to go to match the historical 
> >Christian kill rate. 
> > 
> >Nick Gier taught religion and philosophy at the University of Idaho
>for 
> >31 years. See his columns as the Palouse Pundit at www.NickGier.com. 
> > 
> > 
> >________________________________________________________________________
> 
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