[Vision2020] A Sad Night for Moscow

[Craine Kit]

Excuse me,  g.

First, I am not "hansen". If you want to piss on him, do it in  
response to one of his posts.

Second, reread my comments. I, as a taxpayer in this city, expect my  
elected representatives understand what they are voting on before  
they say yea or nay. I, as a citizen, need to know what information  
will be used in a decision IF I am going to make an informed comment.  
Neither I nor the Council can fully consider the consequences of a  
decision if essential facts are presented as the Councilors walk into  
a meeting. Staff being allowed to insert information at the last  
minute is a question  of TIMING, not a target of someone's "pique."

A decision based on last minute input is NOT necessarily a good one.

Kit Craine (a female who always provikes a negative response from g.)


On Jun 6, 2007, at 3:42 PM, g. crabtree wrote:

> "When important information arrives too
> late to fit into the packet, perhaps the matter should be tabled
> until the next meeting."
>
> So why does Ament not simply make that motion? In what way is the  
> process improved by his treating the staff and the audience both  
> televised and in attendance to yet another of his famous fits of  
> pique? I would think that there will always be the potential for  
> new or updated information to come in after the meetings agenda has  
> been set and the packets put together, running down the staff for  
> trying to make sure he has the most up to date information possible  
> is unappreciative and crass.
>
> As an aside for hansen: As a youth, had I told one of my peers to  
> "shut up" I would have likely been admonished and sent on my way.  
> Had I thrown a public hissy fit, spreading my juvenile attitude  
> over people who were trying to help me, I'd most certainly have  
> been shown a far harsher discipline.
>
> g
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Craine Kit" <kcraine at verizon.net>
> To: "Saundra Lund" <sslund at roadrunner.com>; "Vision 2020"  
> <vision2020 at moscow.com>
> Cc: "Stout Bob" <bstout at ci.moscow.id.us>; "Ament Aaron"  
> <aaronament at moscow.com>; "Lambert Bill" <blambert at ci.moscow.id.us>;  
> "Chaney Nancy" <nchaney at ci.moscow.id.us>; <sears at moscow.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, June 06, 2007 10:41 AM
> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] A Sad Night for Moscow
>
>
>> I agree with Aaron Ament. The City Council is conducting the people's
>> business: making contracts, passing laws, and--most importantly--  
>> spending our money. Just as a smart person takes time to read and
>> understand the fine print in a contract before signing it, I expect
>> our representatives to do no less when committing our community and
>> our dollars to something.
>>
>> Furthermore, we--the people--have a right to participate in our
>> government. We should be able to review the same information the
>> Council will see so we can make informed comments.
>>
>> Neither the Council nor the people can do their jobs well when
>> pertinent information is not available until just before a decision
>> is made. That has nothing to do with the competence of the staff and
>> everything to do with timing. When important information arrives too
>> late to fit into the packet, perhaps the matter should be tabled
>> until the next meeting.
>>
>> Kit Craine
>>
>>
>> On Jun 5, 2007, at 4:12 PM, Saundra Lund wrote:
>>
>>> Visionaires:
>>>
>>> No matter how you feel about the issue that was under discussion,  
>>> I am
>>> absolutely appalled at John Weber's behavior during last night's  
>>> City
>>> Council meeting  :-(  For him to publicly tell another Council
>>> member with
>>> whom he disagrees to "shut up" is simply beyond the pale.  Stupid
>>> mistakes
>>> like that do far more to harm our community than do honest
>>> disagreements.
>>>
>>> What happened to your manners, Mr. Weber?  Did you not stop to
>>> ***think***
>>> about your behavior being televised into homes in our community?!?
>>> Even my
>>> 17-year-old knows it's incredibly rude and disrespectful to tell
>>> another to
>>> "shut up."   She, BTW, was gleefully (I'm sorry to say) horrified
>>> reading
>>> about your spectacle last night.  I had to explain to her I was
>>> sure your
>>> mother *had* raised you better, but people sometimes make mistakes
>>> in the
>>> heat of the moment or not, as she well knows, and that when you  
>>> make a
>>> mistake, you apologize, learn from the mistake, and carry on.
>>> "Where's his
>>> apology?" was her question.  It's mine, too.
>>>
>>> We're waiting for an apology, Mr. Weber -- one is certainly due
>>> from you to
>>> all who witnessed or read about your rude and disrespectful
>>> behavior last
>>> night.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Saundra Lund
>>> Moscow, ID
>>>
>>> The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good people
>>> to do
>>> nothing.
>>> - Edmund Burke
>>>
>>> Moscow-Pullman Daily News
>>>
>>> Big-box changes nixed
>>> By Omie Drawhorn, Daily News staff writer
>>>
>>> Tuesday, June 5, 2007 - Page Updated at 12:00:00 AM
>>>
>>> Tempers flared at Monday night's Moscow City Council meeting,
>>> during which
>>> the council rejected any amendments to the large retail  
>>> establishment
>>> ordinance.
>>>
>>> "We already have a dark-store ordinance in there that is stronger
>>> than what
>>> planning and zoning brought us," Councilman Aaron Ament said. "I
>>> want to see
>>> a cap. A cap would serve this community well. We have a big-box
>>> shopping
>>> culture that's just about run its course in this country; we're
>>> making sure
>>> they mitigate for problems they cause the community. Moscow would
>>> be crazy
>>> to drop all the rest and just let them come into the city on  
>>> their own
>>> terms."
>>>
>>> Ament went on to say he was frustrated that Moscow city staff
>>> members hand
>>> him important documents just minutes before the start of a meeting.
>>>
>>> "I'm so tired of coming to sit down and have people flip papers for
>>> me to
>>> read," he said. "I seriously read everything put in the packet, and
>>> I find
>>> it insulting for them to expect me to read it in a couple of  
>>> minutes."
>>>
>>> At that point, Councilman John Weber interrupted Ament.
>>>
>>> "We have pretty qualified people over here who do a very good job;
>>> I don't
>>> need you running off on them," he said. "Why don't you just shut  
>>> up?"
>>>
>>> Moscow Mayor Nancy Chaney said Weber interrupted Ament at "the
>>> appropriate
>>> time."
>>>
>>> "I hope we can retrieve a little civility on all sides,"
>>> Councilwoman Linda
>>> Pall said.
>>>
>>> The amendments recommended by the planning and zoning commission
>>> included:
>>>
>>> A large retail establishment would have to expand by at least 30
>>> percent
>>> before it would be required to apply for a conditional use permit;
>>>
>>> Big-box stores between 40,000 and 65,000 square feet would be
>>> subject to the
>>> design manual - which includes standards for the exterior and
>>> interior of
>>> buildings - at the discretion of the board of adjustment;
>>>
>>> Any business requiring 140 or fewer parking spaces would not be
>>> subject to
>>> the parking requirements of the design manual;
>>>
>>> Size be based on gross floor space as opposed to projected roof  
>>> area,
>>> thereby eliminating outdoor storage areas from the calculated square
>>> footage.
>>>
>>> The planning and zoning commission also recommended a guideline for
>>> stores
>>> that go dark in Moscow to follow.
>>>
>>> The large retail establishment ordinance, passed in February 2006,
>>> requires
>>> retail stores with more than 40,000 square feet of gross floor area
>>> to apply
>>> for a conditional use permit.
>>>
>>> The council heard public testimony on the proposed amendments May 7.
>>>
>>> Councilman Bill Lambert said the conditional use permit process
>>> already
>>> gives the city enough control on which businesses are allowed to
>>> locate
>>> within the city.
>>>
>>> "The big-box ordinance as it stands now is a tough enough ordinance
>>> we're
>>> not going to need (amendments) like this to prevail," he said. "The
>>> dark-store issue can be dealt with at the time the conditional use
>>> permit is
>>> requested."
>>>
>>> Weber agreed.
>>>
>>> "With the dark store ordinance, what we have done here is put in  
>>> some
>>> verbiage that would make it almost impossible for anybody from the
>>> city to
>>> enforce or get a handle on," he said. "We've choked it off to the
>>> point that
>>> nobody really wants to come here anyway."
>>>
>>> In other business, the council reversed a board of adjustment
>>> decision that
>>> granted a conditional use permit for a proposed a Dutch Bros.
>>> coffee outlet
>>> with a drive-through window at 525 S. Jackson St.
>>>
>>> QUICKREAD
>>>
>>> WHAT HAPPENED: The Moscow City Council rejected amendments to the
>>> large
>>> retail establishment ordinance recommended by the planning and  
>>> zoning
>>> commission.
>>>
>>> WHAT IT MEANS: The large retail establishment ordinance will not
>>> include a
>>> size cap. The original dark-store provision remains the same.
>>>
>>> WHAT HAPPENS NEXT: The ordinance will remain as originally written.
>>>
>>> WHY YOU SHOULD CARE: The ordinance affects businesses greater than
>>> 40,000
>>> square feet that want to move into Moscow.
>>>
>>> Omie Drawhorn can be reached at (208) 882-5561, ext. 234, or by e-
>>> mail at
>>> odrawhorn at dnews.com.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> =======================================================
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>>>  serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
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>>>           mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
>>> =======================================================
>>
>> =======================================================
>> List services made available by First Step Internet,
>> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
>>               http://www.fsr.net
>>          mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
>> =======================================================
>
>