[Vision2020] Jeb Bush Featured in Gay Marriage Ads
J Ford
privatejf32 at hotmail.com
Wed Jun 6 19:03:14 PDT 2007
And again, you refuse to answer the questions that have been posed to you.
I ask you once more - what was your point?! Or did you even have one?
J :]
>From: <pkraut at moscow.com>
>To: vision2020 at moscow.com
>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Jeb Bush Featured in Gay Marriage Ads
>Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2007 00:26:26 GMT
>
>The problem is that too many on this list would not know the leading
>questions of an intelligent conversation. Ellen, J and others are quick to
>leap to personal attacks with no real understanding of the person or
>subject. In private I and others discuss the issues without the meanness
>and inability to see beyond the current PC expectations that some are wont
>to jump into. J you have no idea what I wanted to do and for you to assume
>you do is ludacris. To my knowledge I have not met you nor ever had a
>conversation with you so how do you assume to know what I wanted?? Once
>again you set yourself up as monitor of this web site with no power!!
>
>
>
> > Point is, Pat, you did not want to have a conversation you wanted to
>make a
> > point. Another issue is - what was that point?!!!
> >
> > If you can't or are choosing to ignore questioning of your e-mails be
>kind
> > enough to not bother. Just clogs the arteries of the computer e-mail
> > system, don't ya know!
> >
> >
> > J :]
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > >From: "Pat Kraut" <pkraut at moscow.com>
> > >To: "vision2020" <vision2020 at moscow.com>
> > >Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Jeb Bush Featured in Gay Marriage Ads
> > >Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2007 21:52:16 -0700
> > >
> > >OK...I am sorry for wanting to have a conversation that would have
>history
> > >and the actions of others in it but some of you do not seem to be able
>to
> > >go
> > >along. So, I am dropping the subject and please be aware that you do
>not
> > >know anything about me or my thoughts about anything.
> > >Perhaps this is too complicated a subject for an email site where-in we
> > >cannot see nor hear the inflection of voice...but jump to many
>judgements
> > >nontheless.
> > >
> > >
> > >----- Original Message -----
> > >From: "Saundra Lund" <sslund at roadrunner.com>
> > >To: "'Pat Kraut'" <pkraut at moscow.com>; "'vision2020'"
> > ><vision2020 at moscow.com>
> > >Sent: Monday, June 04, 2007 12:44 AM
> > >Subject: RE: [Vision2020] Jeb Bush Featured in Gay Marriage Ads
> > >
> > >
> > >Hi Pat,
> > >
> > >So, the reverse would hold true as well, correct? "The church" (and
>please
> > >clarify what you mean by "the church") has no right to try to force the
> > >State to do something it is against, right? If "the church" wants to
>do
> > >something, it should go for it, but the State should not be forced into
> > >anything by "the church", right?
> > >
> > >And, we can count on you to stand up and speak out against "the church"
> > >trying to force the state into things, right?
> > >
> > >Of course, I don't agree with your premise for ***obvious*** reasons,
>but
> > >I'm just wanting to make sure you're consistent, at least :-)
> > >
> > >
> > >Saundra Lund
> > >Moscow, ID
> > >
> > >The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good people to
>do
> > >nothing.
> > >- Edmund Burke
> > >
> > >***** Original material contained herein is Copyright 2007 through life
> > >plus
> > >70 years, Saundra Lund. Do not copy, forward, excerpt, or reproduce
>outside
> > >the Vision 2020 forum without the express written permission of the
> > >author.*****
> > >
> > >-----Original Message-----
> > >From: vision2020-bounces at moscow.com [mailto:vision2020-
>bounces at moscow.com]
> > >On Behalf Of Pat Kraut
> > >Sent: Sunday, June 03, 2007 9:18 PM
> > >To: vision2020
> > >Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Jeb Bush Featured in Gay Marriage Ads
> > >
> > >The state has no right to force the church to do something it is
>against.
> > >If
> > >the state wants to do it...go for it...but the church should not be
>forced
> > >into anything.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >----- Original Message -----
> > >From: "Paul Rumelhart" <godshatter at yahoo.com>
> > >To: <vision2020 at moscow.com>
> > >Sent: Sunday, June 03, 2007 4:41 PM
> > >Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Jeb Bush Featured in Gay Marriage Ads
> > >
> > >
> > >Why is it not a state issue? Why not open it up so that any two
> > >consenting adults can marry each other and gain the benefits that
> > >heterosexual couples currently enjoy? The individual churches can
>still
> > >refuse to marry any two people based upon whatever criteria they care
>to
> > >name. There are plenty of religions that don't have a problem with it.
> > >So why should they be restricted in what they can do simply because
>some
> > >other groups does have a problem with it? This is why the separation
>of
> > >church and state is a good thing. It provides a framework that people
> > >of all different creeds can use as they see fit.
> > >
> > >I really wish church leaders would govern their own flocks, and stop
> > >trying to control all the other faiths.
> > >
> > >Paul
> > >
> > >pkraut at moscow.com wrote:
> > > > You are trying to argue with the state and this is a church issue.
>The
> > > > church does not want to marry homosexuals because the bible talks
>about
> > >it
> > > > being an no-no. The church also questioned marrying outside of their
> > > > religion and race because the bible suggests it is not a good thing.
>By
> > > > taking the issue to the church you would actually have to discuss
>this
> > > > problem with some reality which of course is why it is presented to
>the
> > > > state. If the church decided to marry outside of race you need to
>seek
> > >the
> > > > answer from churches. There are churches that are willing to marry
> > > > homosexuals also...with some of the same problems that happened when
> > >some
> > > > chose to marry outside of race.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >> >From today's (June 3, 2007) Spokesman Review -
> > > >>
> > > >> ---------------------------------------------------------
> > > >>
> > > >> Jeb Bush featured in gay marriage ads
> > > >> Lesley Clark
> > > >> McClatchy
> > > >> June 3, 2007
> > > >>
> > > >> WASHINGTON - Former Florida Gov. Jeb Bush, the poster child for gay
> > > >> marriage?
> > > >>
> > > >> A coalition of civil rights groups that back gay marriage is using
> > > >>
> > > > photos of
> > > >
> > > >> prominent couples like the former Republican governor and his
>Mexican-
> > > >>
> > > > born
> > > >
> > > >> wife, Columba, in an advertising campaign marking the 40th
>anniversary
> > >of
> > > >> Loving v. Virginia, a U.S. Supreme Court decision that gave
>interracial
> > > >> couples the right to marry.
> > > >>
> > > >> The groups say they hope to use the couples and the court case to
> > >bolster
> > > >> their contention that marriage is a civil right that should know no
> > > >>
> > > > bounds -
> > > >
> > > >> even for those of the same sex.
> > > >>
> > > >> "We're honoring and celebrating something that just over 40 years
>ago
> > > >>
> > > > some
> > > >
> > > >> Americans said was immoral and wrong and could not happen," said
>Jimmy
> > > >> Creech, the executive director of Faith in America, a gay rights
> > >advocacy
> > > >> group that is bankrolling the ad campaign. "We're celebrating the
> > >wisdom
> > > >> that prejudice and bigotry was removed from the law books and
>Americans
> > > >>
> > > > were
> > > >
> > > >> given the right to marry the person they loved, regardless of
>race."
> > > >>
> > > >> The "Freedom to Marry" advertising campaign - to be launched
>Monday -
> > > >> consists of six ads that will run in two Capitol Hill publications,
> > >Roll
> > > >> Call and Politico. They feature photos of interracial couples like
> > >golfer
> > > >> Tiger Woods and his wife, Elin, and former U.S. Defense Secretary
>Bill
> > > >>
> > > > Cohen
> > > >
> > > >> and his wife, Janet Langhart, who have authored a book about their
> > > >>
> > > > marriage,
> > > >
> > > >> "Love in Black and White." Couples married to someone of a
>different
> > > >> ethnicity, like the Bushes, are also featured.
> > > >>
> > > >> The ads note that 16 states still banned interracial marriages
>until
> > >the
> > > >> Supreme Court struck down a Virginia law in 1967, finding "the
>freedom
> > >to
> > > >> marry has long been recognized as one of the vital personal rights
> > > >>
> > > > essential
> > > >
> > > >> to the orderly pursuit of happiness by free men."
> > > >>
> > > >> "Jeb and Columba Bush couldn't marry today if discrimination were
>still
> > > >>
> > > > the
> > > >
> > > >> law of the land," the ad that features the former Florida first
>couple
> > > >> reads.
> > > >>
> > > >> Bush didn't respond to a request for comment. But John Stemberger,
>an
> > > >> Orlando attorney who is spearheading a petition drive to put a gay
> > > >>
> > > > marriage
> > > >
> > > >> ban up for a vote in Florida in 2008, called the ads "a little bit
> > > >>
> > > > silly."
> > > >
> > > >> ---------------------------------------------------------
> > > >>
> > > >> Seeya round town, Moscow.
> > > >>
> > > >> Tom Hansen
> > > >> Moscow, Idaho
> > > >>
> > > >> "Gays and lesbians stood up for civil rights in Montgomery, Selma,
>in
> > > >> Albany, Georgia and St. Augustine, Florida, and many other
>campaigns of
> > > >>
> > > > the
> > > >
> > > >> Civil Rights Movement. Many of these courageous men and women were
> > > >>
> > > > fighting
> > > >
> > > >> for my freedom at a time when they could find few voices for their
>own,
> > > >>
> > > > and
> > > >
> > > >> I salute their contributions."
> > > >>
> > > >> - Coretta Scott King (March 30, 1998)
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> =======================================================
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> > > >> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
> > > >> http://www.fsr.net
> > > >> mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
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> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
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