[Vision2020] [Spam 5.53] Re: Follow up - Islam the religion ofpeace!
Kai Eiselein, editor
editor at lataheagle.com
Tue Jun 5 10:06:22 PDT 2007
So, where did the elements come from? How did that single point come into
being? Where did the void that the expanding cosmos come from? Was there
something there before? So many questions, so few answers.
Oy! My poor aching head!
----- Original Message -----
From: "lfalen" <lfalen at turbonet.com>
To: "Paul Rumelhart" <godshatter at yahoo.com>; <vision2020 at moscow.com>
Sent: Tuesday, June 05, 2007 9:10 AM
Subject: [Vision2020] [Spam 5.53] Re: Follow up - Islam the religion
ofpeace!
> Paul
> You are correct. science and religion are two different things. Each has
> its place and should not be pitted against one another. As to rational
> thinking check out the magazine : The Skeptical Inquirer".
> Roger
> -----Original message-----
> From: Paul Rumelhart godshatter at yahoo.com
> Date: Mon, 04 Jun 2007 21:07:49 -0700
> To: vision2020 at moscow.com
> Subject: [Spam 5.53] Re: [Vision2020] Follow up - Islam the religion of
> peace!
>
>> "Science: There was nothing.... and then it exploded."
>>
>> I think you mis-characterize science here. Science says something more
>> along the lines of: all evidence that we have points us in the direction
>> that indicates that there is a massive expansion happening. Everything
>> far away from us is red-shifted, which we understand to mean that it is
>> moving away from us. These measurements can be made independently by
>> anyone. Since *everything* can't be moving away from us unless we are
>> the exact center of the universe, and that's too difficult to believe,
>> then it must be that everything is moving away from everything else,
>> i.e. the universe is expanding omnidirectionally. So if you run the
>> clocks back, you see everything shrink down to a single point. Thus,
>> you get the "Big Bang" theory. They've even used it to determine the
>> rough ratios of some basic elements in the universe, which is backed up
>> pretty well by various measurements, as have other basic predictions
>> such as the cosmic background radiation.
>>
>> So when you are using rational thinking as your basis of comparison,
>> science wins hands down.
>>
>> Also it says exactly nothing about how this point that rapidly expanded
>> came to be. It's not meant to. It's like trying to measure the inside
>> of a box and using those measurements to try to determine the motives of
>> the people who made it. Science and religion are two very different
>> animals.
>>
>> As an old colleague of mine used to say, you are comparing apples and
>> oranges and coming up with pineapples and grapefruit!
>>
>> Paul
>>
>>
>> Kai Eiselein, editor wrote:
>> > Christians: In the beginning, there was nothing, then God created the
>> > heavens and the Earth.
>> > (Some) Native Americans: Raven created the Earth.
>> > From China: Long, long ago, when heaven and earth were still one, the
>> > entire universe was contained in an egg-shaped cloud. All the matter
>> > of the universe swirled chaotically in that egg. Deep within the
>> > swirling matter was Pan Gu, a huge giant who grew in the chaos. For
>> > 18,000 years he developed and slept in the egg. Finally one day he
>> > awoke and stretched, and the egg broke to release the matter of the
>> > universe. The lighter purer elements drifted upwards to make the sky
>> > and heavens, and the heavier impure elements settled downwards to make
>> > the earth.
>> > Mossi (Africa): In the beginning there was no earth, no day or
>> > night, and not even time itself. All that existed was the Kingdom of
>> > Everlasting Truth, which was ruled by the Naba Zid-Wendé. The Naba
>> > Zid-Wendé made the earth, and then they made the day and the night.
>> > From India: In the beginning there was absolutely nothing, and what
>> > existed was covered by death and hunger. He thought, "Let me have a
>> > self", and he created the mind. As he moved about in worship, water
>> > was generated. Froth formed on the water, and the froth eventually
>> > solidifed to become earth. He rested on the earth, and from his
>> > luminence came fire. After resting, he divided himself in three parts,
>> > and one is fire, one is the sun, and one is the air.
>> > Science: There was nothing.... and then it exploded.
>> > Hmmmmmmmmmmmm, which is more rational?
>> >
>> > ----- Original Message -----
>> > *From:* Ted Moffett <mailto:starbliss at gmail.com>
>> > *To:* Donovan Arnold <mailto:donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com>
>> > *Cc:* vision2020 at moscow.com <mailto:vision2020 at moscow.com> ; Carl
>> > Westberg <mailto:carlwestberg846 at hotmail.com>
>> > *Sent:* Monday, June 04, 2007 2:50 PM
>> > *Subject:* Re: [Vision2020] Follow up - Islam the religion of
>> > peace!
>> >
>> >
>> > Donovan et. al.
>> >
>> > I have heard your argument numerous times from various sources.
>> > It is specious.
>> >
>> > Assuming we do not know for certain what God, the Goddess, Gods or
>> > Goddesses, or various other possible forms of supreme beings or
>> > powers, will regard as the correct way of thinking, it remains
>> > possible that being agnostic will be regarded by the supreme
>> > being, beings or powers in our universe, as the most laudable and
>> > rational response to the evidence based on reason. Therefore
>> > agnostics may turn out to be the chosen people, and the so called
>> > "faithful" will be viewed in a less than favorable light for their
>> > blind allegiance to dogmatic doctrines that are not supported
>> > sufficiently by evidence or reason.
>> >
>> > Ted Moffett
>> >
>> >
>> > On 5/31/07, *Donovan Arnold* <donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com
>> > <mailto:donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com>> wrote:
>> >
>> > Carl,
>> >
>> > It is illogical to be agnostic. If you die, which you will,
>> > and there is in fact a God, you best have worshiped him. On
>> > the other, if there is no God, it won't count against you.
>> >
>> > Best,
>> >
>> > Donovan
>> >
>> >
>> > */keely emerinemix <kjajmix1 at msn.com
>> > <mailto:kjajmix1 at msn.com>>/* wrote:
>> >
>> > And, as one of your Christian friends, I love you for
>> > that, Carl.
>> >
>> > No, wait -- I hate you. I think.
>> >
>> > AAARRRRGGGHHHH! It's so confusing -- who to hate, who to
>> > love, who to pray against, who to call "brother" or
>> > "sister," who to make fun of. If only there were a guide
>> > . . .
>> >
>> > keely
>> >
>> > > From: carlwestberg846 at hotmail.com
>> > <mailto:carlwestberg846 at hotmail.com>
>> > > To: vision2020 at moscow.com <mailto:vision2020 at moscow.com>
>> > > Date: Thu, 31 May 2007 17:13:26 -0700
>> > > Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Follow up - Islam the religion
>> > of peace!
>> > >
>> > > The repeated attempts by certain Christian folk to
>> > convince me that by the
>> > > mere fact of being Muslim, one is evil, makes me all the
>> > more convinced that
>> > > to remain an agnostic who has Muslims and Christians in
>> > his circle of
>> > > friends is the right choice. Carl Westberg Jr.
>> > >
>> > >
>> >
>>
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>
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> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
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