[Vision2020] Follow up - Islam the religion of peace!

Mon Jun 4 18:14:35 PDT 2007

Ted,

  One can believe in a God  and worship without blindly following religious doctrine.

  Nor does it always follow that it would be logical to deny the existence of God. For example, all creationism and evolution stories can be followed with one final question, "And where did that come from?" Somebody or something had to create matter or at least energy. We know that energy cannot be created, so it must have come from somewhere and somehow outside the current laws of nature, something, supernatural. 

  Further, you sort of contradict yourself in saying that we don't know how the supernatural wish us to think, and thus think it logical to assume they would want us to ignore their existence. You are counting yourself out if they choose based on how we think, because chances are none of us are thinking correctly about a being beyond our human comprehension. 

  I would also like to conclude by pointing out that for many people that have experienced amazing unexplained phenomenon in their life at some point in time find it illogical to think that there is nothing above us in superior intelligence and ability. 

  Best,

  Donovan

Carl Westberg <carlwestberg846 at hotmail.com> wrote:
  ".....which is more rational?" The Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster, 
of course. You can learn more.....http://www.venganza.org/ Carl 
Westberg Jr.

>From: "Kai Eiselein, editor" 
>To: "Ted Moffett" , "Donovan Arnold" 
>
>CC: vision2020 at moscow.com, Carl Westberg 
>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Follow up - Islam the religion of peace!
>Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2007 15:29:01 -0700
>
>Christians: In the beginning, there was nothing, then God created the 
>heavens and the Earth.
>(Some) Native Americans: Raven created the Earth.
> >From China: Long, long ago, when heaven and earth were still one, the 
>entire universe was contained in an egg-shaped cloud. All the matter of the 
>universe swirled chaotically in that egg. Deep within the swirling matter 
>was Pan Gu, a huge giant who grew in the chaos. For 18,000 years he 
>developed and slept in the egg. Finally one day he awoke and stretched, and 
>the egg broke to release the matter of the universe. The lighter purer 
>elements drifted upwards to make the sky and heavens, and the heavier 
>impure elements settled downwards to make the earth.
>Mossi (Africa): In the beginning there was no earth, no day or night, and 
>not even time itself. All that existed was the Kingdom of Everlasting 
>Truth, which was ruled by the Naba Zid-Wendé. The Naba Zid-Wendé made the 
>earth, and then they made the day and the night.
> >From India: In the beginning there was absolutely nothing, and what 
>existed was covered by death and hunger. He thought, "Let me have a self", 
>and he created the mind. As he moved about in worship, water was generated. 
>Froth formed on the water, and the froth eventually solidifed to become 
>earth. He rested on the earth, and from his luminence came fire. After 
>resting, he divided himself in three parts, and one is fire, one is the 
>sun, and one is the air.
>Science: There was nothing.... and then it exploded.
>Hmmmmmmmmmmmm, which is more rational?
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Ted Moffett
> To: Donovan Arnold
> Cc: vision2020 at moscow.com ; Carl Westberg
> Sent: Monday, June 04, 2007 2:50 PM
> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Follow up - Islam the religion of peace!
>
>
>
> Donovan et. al.
>
> I have heard your argument numerous times from various sources. It is 
>specious.
>
> Assuming we do not know for certain what God, the Goddess, Gods or 
>Goddesses, or various other possible forms of supreme beings or powers, 
>will regard as the correct way of thinking, it remains possible that being 
>agnostic will be regarded by the supreme being, beings or powers in our 
>universe, as the most laudable and rational response to the evidence based 
>on reason. Therefore agnostics may turn out to be the chosen people, and 
>the so called "faithful" will be viewed in a less than favorable light for 
>their blind allegiance to dogmatic doctrines that are not supported 
>sufficiently by evidence or reason.
>
> Ted Moffett
>
>
> On 5/31/07, Donovan Arnold wrote:
> Carl,
>
> It is illogical to be agnostic. If you die, which you will, and there 
>is in fact a God, you best have worshiped him. On the other, if there is no 
>God, it won't count against you.
>
> Best,
>
> Donovan
>
>
> keely emerinemix wrote:
> And, as one of your Christian friends, I love you for that, Carl.
>
> No, wait -- I hate you. I think.
>
> AAARRRRGGGHHHH! It's so confusing -- who to hate, who to love, who 
>to pray against, who to call "brother" or "sister," who to make fun of. 
>If only there were a guide . . .
>
> keely
>
> > From: carlwestberg846 at hotmail.com
> > To: vision2020 at moscow.com
> > Date: Thu, 31 May 2007 17:13:26 -0700
> > Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Follow up - Islam the religion of peace!
> >
> > The repeated attempts by certain Christian folk to convince me 
>that by the
> > mere fact of being Muslim, one is evil, makes me all the more 
>convinced that
> > to remain an agnostic who has Muslims and Christians in his circle 
>of
> > friends is the right choice. Carl Westberg Jr.
> >
> >
>
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> =======================================================
> List services made available by First Step Internet,
> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
> http://www.fsr.net
> mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
> =======================================================

>=======================================================
> List services made available by First Step Internet,
> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
> http://www.fsr.net
> mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
>=======================================================

_________________________________________________________________
PC Magazine’s 2007 editors’ choice for best Web mail—award-winning Windows 
Live Hotmail. 
http://imagine-windowslive.com/hotmail/?locale=en-us&ocid=TXT_TAGHM_migration_HM_mini_pcmag_0507

=======================================================
List services made available by First Step Internet, 
serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994. 
http://www.fsr.net 
mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
=======================================================

---------------------------------
Get the free Yahoo! toolbar and rest assured with the added security of spyware protection. 
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://mailman.fsr.com/pipermail/vision2020/attachments/20070604/d119c7e2/attachment.html 