[Vision2020] Jeb Bush Featured in Gay Marriage Ads
g. crabtree
jampot at adelphia.net
Mon Jun 4 07:24:31 PDT 2007
I took the twinkling beady blue remark, added in the too much fun comment and combined it with the too much time on my hands quip (I recall no "might") and implied a faintly negative spin. If I was in error I apologize. My post was meant to be an in jest reference to that conversation more then (but not exclusive of) an expression of disagreement.
I fail to see the bigotry in the post you decline to pussyfoot around. There is no question that an inter-racial marriage would face unique difficulties. Heck, a marriage between a couple of the same race, religion, educational background, and out of the same culture/community is tough enough to make work. Adding additional differences and distinctions would obviously have the potential to make a lasting union more of a challenge. Not that it necessarily would but, the potential would certainly be there. I do not think acknowledging this reality constitutes intolerance.
In my opinion a better solution to the church/state and marriage issue might be to go 180 degrees away from the direction that Mr. Rumelhart suggested. Have the state recognize no marriage. Treat all citizens as individuals for the purpose of taxation and benefits and let whoever wants to consider themselves married go for it with whatever church will have them. That way a marriage between a man and a woman would be, from a government perspective, no different than a partnership between a man and a pack of wild monkeys, a woman and a tank of tropical fish or any other creative living arraignment. Extending the current arrangement to include gay couples simply kicks the problem down the road a short distance till the next group that yearns for acknowledgement and a slice of the pie pops up and squeals for attention.
g
----- Original Message -----
From: Ellen Roskovich
To: jampot at adelphia.net ; pkraut at moscow.com ; vision2020 at moscow.com
Cc: carolwstrobel at hotmail.com
Sent: Sunday, June 03, 2007 7:22 PM
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Jeb Bush Featured in Gay Marriage Ads
Well, golly gee, Gary. I really thought that the original post was one of a political nature, so it kinda threw me for a loop when Ms Kraut came back admonishing us that we should be looking to the church for answers. Of course, like so many before her, she forgot to explain what "the church" really means. In this country we embrace all religions (or so I've been told. . . ) I'm just not sure which one is "THE" church, but it must be the one Ms Kraut goes to, and it has much better answers than the Supreme Court.
Me, judgmental? Hell, yes! If my gut tells me I'm dealing with a bigot we'll just cut to the chase. . . . no pussyfooting around. All done in the name of "effective time management", of course. Hadn't thought of it that way, but it does have a nice ring to it. Thanks, Gary.
Now, Gary, 72 hours ago did you really believe I said you were mean spirited? I think I said there was a twinkle in your beady blue eye and you might be having too much fun. Hmmm?
Ellen Roskovich
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: "g. crabtree" <jampot at adelphia.net>
To: "Ellen Roskovich" <gussie443 at hotmail.com>,<pkraut at moscow.com>,<vision2020 at moscow.com>
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Jeb Bush Featured in Gay Marriage Ads
Date: Sun, 3 Jun 2007 18:26:22 -0700
Ms. Roskovich, To think that within the last 72 hours you expressed the notion that I'm a mite mean spirited and have a little to much time on my hands and yet here we are, handing out the feel goods. I seriously doubt that Ms. Kraut is a homophobe, much less a racist. To be handing out those titles based on your admittedly imperfect understanding of her brief post comes across as a smidge judgmental, don't you think? Or does your crowded schedule and generous spirit demand that you leap to the harshest conclusion possible all in the name of effective time management?
g
----- Original Message -----
From: Ellen Roskovich
To: pkraut at moscow.com ; vision2020 at moscow.com
Sent: Sunday, June 03, 2007 3:58 PM
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Jeb Bush Featured in Gay Marriage Ads
Something must have been lost in the translation, because I had a really hard time trying to understand that. But, to me, it sounded like you're a good bible-thumping homophobe and a tad racist to boot. . . .all cuz God sez so.
Ellen Roskovich
------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: <pkraut at moscow.com>
To: vision2020 at moscow.com
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Jeb Bush Featured in Gay Marriage Ads
Date: Sun, 3 Jun 2007 22:31:10 GMT
>You are trying to argue with the state and this is a church issue. The
>church does not want to marry homosexuals because the bible talks about it
>being an no-no. The church also questioned marrying outside of their
>religion and race because the bible suggests it is not a good thing. By
>taking the issue to the church you would actually have to discuss this
>problem with some reality which of course is why it is presented to the
>state. If the church decided to marry outside of race you need to seek the
>answer from churches. There are churches that are willing to marry
>homosexuals also...with some of the same problems that happened when some
>chose to marry outside of race.
>
>
>
>
>
> > >From today's (June 3, 2007) Spokesman Review -
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > Jeb Bush featured in gay marriage ads
> > Lesley Clark
> > McClatchy
> > June 3, 2007
> >
> > WASHINGTON - Former Florida Gov. Jeb Bush, the poster child for gay
> > marriage?
> >
> > A coalition of civil rights groups that back gay marriage is using
>photos of
> > prominent couples like the former Republican governor and his Mexican-
>born
> > wife, Columba, in an advertising campaign marking the 40th anniversary of
> > Loving v. Virginia, a U.S. Supreme Court decision that gave interracial
> > couples the right to marry.
> >
> > The groups say they hope to use the couples and the court case to bolster
> > their contention that marriage is a civil right that should know no
>bounds -
> > even for those of the same sex.
> >
> > "We're honoring and celebrating something that just over 40 years ago
>some
> > Americans said was immoral and wrong and could not happen," said Jimmy
> > Creech, the executive director of Faith in America, a gay rights advocacy
> > group that is bankrolling the ad campaign. "We're celebrating the wisdom
> > that prejudice and bigotry was removed from the law books and Americans
>were
> > given the right to marry the person they loved, regardless of race."
> >
> > The "Freedom to Marry" advertising campaign - to be launched Monday -
> > consists of six ads that will run in two Capitol Hill publications, Roll
> > Call and Politico. They feature photos of interracial couples like golfer
> > Tiger Woods and his wife, Elin, and former U.S. Defense Secretary Bill
>Cohen
> > and his wife, Janet Langhart, who have authored a book about their
>marriage,
> > "Love in Black and White." Couples married to someone of a different
> > ethnicity, like the Bushes, are also featured.
> >
> > The ads note that 16 states still banned interracial marriages until the
> > Supreme Court struck down a Virginia law in 1967, finding "the freedom to
> > marry has long been recognized as one of the vital personal rights
>essential
> > to the orderly pursuit of happiness by free men."
> >
> > "Jeb and Columba Bush couldn't marry today if discrimination were still
>the
> > law of the land," the ad that features the former Florida first couple
> > reads.
> >
> > Bush didn't respond to a request for comment. But John Stemberger, an
> > Orlando attorney who is spearheading a petition drive to put a gay
>marriage
> > ban up for a vote in Florida in 2008, called the ads "a little bit
>silly."
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > Seeya round town, Moscow.
> >
> > Tom Hansen
> > Moscow, Idaho
> >
> > "Gays and lesbians stood up for civil rights in Montgomery, Selma, in
> > Albany, Georgia and St. Augustine, Florida, and many other campaigns of
>the
> > Civil Rights Movement. Many of these courageous men and women were
>fighting
> > for my freedom at a time when they could find few voices for their own,
>and
> > I salute their contributions."
> >
> > - Coretta Scott King (March 30, 1998)
> >
> >
> > =======================================================
> > List services made available by First Step Internet,
> > serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
> > http://www.fsr.net
> > mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
> > =======================================================
> >
>
>
>
>
>---------------------------------------------
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