[Vision2020] George W Told the Nation

pkraut at moscow.com pkraut at moscow.com
Sun Jul 15 20:42:13 PDT 2007 

I agree that Irans government is something we really need to watch but I 
am also aware that the people of Iran have just about had it with their 
president also. 


> On 7/15/07, Donovan Arnold <donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com> wrote:
> > Andreas,
> >
> > Sorry, but you are the one that lives in a fantasy world if you think 
that
> > withdrawing US troops and handing the country to Iran, a nuclear 
superpower,
> > is in our best interests.
> 
> Iran is neither nuclear nor a superpower. They are five years away
> from having a nuclear weapon, assuming they stay on their current
> course, and they are at best a regional power; they exercise no
> authority outside the Middle East. Though they have influence in
> Iraq's Shi'a leaders, no Iraqi government officials are puppets of
> Iran in the same sense that Lebanon was a puppet state of Syria.
> Further, ethnic differences between Iraq and Iran prevent easy
> unification of interests -- Shi'a Iraqis are Arabic-speaking Arabs,
> and Shi'a Iranians are Farsi-speaking Persians.
> 
> I'd also like to note that the nightmare scenario in your previous
> post is ... uh, I'm trying to be polite, but it's crazy. What you're
> suggesting is that:
> 
> (1) Hamid Karzai is controlled by al-Qaida.
> 
> (2) Sunni al-Qaida -- the group supporting attacks on Shi'a in Iraq,
> and which considers Shi'a the worst kind of heretics -- would join
> with Shi'as in Iraq and Iran to form a super-powered alliance.
> 
> (3) al-Qaida, a crazed but moronic death cult whose only purpose is to
> attack America, and which has been, for six years, been entirely
> unable to execute an attack on American soil, would beat out every
> last local interest and power group for rulership of 3/4 of the
> Islamic world.
> 
> (4) This giant al-Qaida controlled juggernaut would then overthrow the
> popular Hashemite Jordanian monarchy and the multi-ethnic Pakistan to
> form a great big, I guess, al-Qaidastan.
> 
> (4) This would throw us into WWIII, but we would continue to purchase 
their oil.
> 
> This is so incoherent that I almost can't believe I read it correctly. 
Um. What?
> 
> > I don't support Bush. But sending the troops back home doesn't 
eliminate the
> > problem the and reality that millions will die if we do.
> >
> > Tell me Andreas, when US troops leave, and millions of innocent Kurds 
and
> > Sunni families are slaughtered, are you going to demand the US go back 
over
> > there and stop the slaughter? Are your going to feel good about the
> > thousands of US troops that die retaking land we already shed blood 
for to
> > stop the slaughter?
> 
> First, Kurdistan will likely remain autonomous, unless Turkey invades
> it. There is likely to be fighting in Mosul and Kirkuk for some time
> to come, due to Saddam's policy of resettling Arabs in traditionally
> Kurdish area, but that will likely die down. One of the few useful
> things we can do is leave a small force in place in Kurdistan -- not
> as a fighting force, but as a political impediment to a local war
> (like, for instance, our garrison in Souh Korea.)
> 
> Second, the Sunnis want us to leave more than anyone. Sunnis are
> responsible for the vast majority of the attacks against US troops.
> Additionally, "al-Qaida in Iraq," our ostensible target in Iraq, is
> itself Sunni.
> 
> Third, we are already facilitating the ethnic cleansing of Iraqi
> Sunnis. The Iraqi security forces to which we are attempting to turn
> over control are heavily infiltrated by Shi'a death squads. Our
> presence is, unfortunately, doing nothing to avert the nightmare
> situation you describe.
> 
> -- ACS
> 
> > The sad thing is, we most likely will retreat from Iraq, and we can 
watch it
> > unfold on the daily news.
> >
> > Best,
> >
> > Donovan
> >
> > Andreas Schou <ophite at gmail.com> wrote:
> > Donovan --
> >
> > We don't live in your fantasy world, where a competent leader has
> > command of an omnipotent military able to sacrifice what is necessary
> > to turn Iraq into a functional state. We happen to live in America,
> > where the most incompetent President of a generation leads a severely
> > weakened military amidst the ruins of Iraqi civil society. Your
> > fantasy situation, where we can do sufficient good to make up for our
> > inexcusable mistake, simply isn't going to occur.
> >
> > The Iraqi people want us out. The American people want us out. The
> > Iraqi government says "we can leave at any time."
> >
> > -- ACS
> >
> > On 7/15/07, Donovan Arnold wrote:
> > > Johnny come marching lately.
> > >
> > > I think all the people that were originally for this war, placed our
> > troops
> > > in harms way, then later changed their minds after thousands of 
troops
> > died,
> > > and now don't want to not finish the mission, should be sent over 
there.
> > >
> > >
> > > I think it immoral to kill all those soldiers, start political 
instability
> > > in the middle east, murder millions of foreign civilians, and then 
say,
> > "Oh
> > > well, never mind!"
> > >
> > > Those people that wanted to start and supported the start of this 
war need
> > > to finish it. If our troops withdraw millions of Iraqis, mostly 
Kurds and
> > > Sunnies, are going to die. Iraq will be governed from Iran. Oil will 
be in
> > > the hands of fewer, causing easily $4 to $5 a gallon. Iran will be a
> > single
> > > superpower in the middle east, great wealth, and nuclear weapons.
> > >
> > > No, we have to stay now. We should have stayed out and went after 
UBL. But
> > > now we have to suffer like we made others suffer. The backstabbers 
that
> > > supported the war and troops in the beginning but now desert them 
should
> > be
> > > the ones to go over there first. Staying is a bad choice for sure, 
but
> > > leaving is even worse. All the idiots that believed Bush and wanted 
war in
> > > the first place should be the idiots to be sacrificed over there.
> > >
> > > Best,
> > >
> > > Donovan
> > >
> > >
> > > Mark Solomon wrote:
> > > Thanks Tom. Tom Paxton has always been one of my favorites. I was
> > > absolutley thrilled when he played at WSU oh so many years ago.
> > >
> > > m.
> > >
> > > At 9:08 AM -0700 7/15/07, Tom Hansen wrote:
> > > >GEORGE W. TOLD THE NATION
> > > >By Tom Paxton
> > > >
> > >
> > >http://www.tomandrodna.com/Songs/George_W_Told_The_Nation.mp3
> > > >
> > > >or
> > > >
> > > >http://tinyurl.com/3bjso5
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >"I got a letter from old George W.,
> > > >It said, "Son, I hate to trouble ya,
> > > >But this war of mine is going bad.
> > > >It's time for me to roll the dice;
> > > >I know you've already been there twice,
> > > >But I am sending you back to Baghdad."
> > > >
> > > >Chorus:
> > > >Hey! George W. told the nation,
> > > >"This is not an escalation;
> > > >This is just a surge toward victory.
> > > >Just to win my little war,
> > > >I'm sending 20,000 more,
> > > >To help me save Iraq from Iraqis.
> > > >
> > > >And, so, I made it to Iraq
> > > >In time for one more sneak attack,
> > > >And to my old battalion I was sent.
> > > >We drive around in our Humvees,
> > > >Listening to The Black-Eyed Peas
> > > >And speaking fondly of the president. (To Chorus)
> > > >
> > > >Celebrities all come to see us,
> > > >Grateful they don't have to be us,
> > > >Politicians show their best face card.
> > > >Where is Bubba? Where's our leader?
> > > >Where's our favorite lip reader?
> > > >AWOL from the Texas National Guard
> > > >
> > > >If you're hunkered in Fallujah
> > > >Wondering who it was who screwed ya,
> > > >Wondering what became of "Shock and Awe!"
> > > >
> > > >You are feeling semi-certain
> > > >It has to do with Halliburton,
> > > >Dick Cheney's why you drew that fatal straw."
> > > >
> > > >-----------------------------------
> > > >
> > > >Seeya round town, Moscow.
> > > >
> > > >Tom Hansen
> > > >Moscow, Idaho
> > > >
> > > >"Patriotism is not a short and frenzied outburst of emotion but the
> > > tranquil
> > > >and steady dedication of a lifetime."
> > > >
> > > >--Adlai E. Stevenson, Jr.
> > >
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