[Vision2020] Women in Authority and Leadership!

[heirdoug at netscape.net]

Thanks Nick for voicing your opinion. It also should be noted that the 
Men of Israel were protecting and caring for their wives and not just 
getting their own needs met and taking advantage of their live-in with 
girlfriends!



Doug!





-----Original Message-----

From: Nick Gier <ngier at uidaho.edu>

To: heirdoug at netscape.net

Cc: vision2020 at moscow.com

Sent: Wed, 11 Jul 2007 8:54 am

Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Women in Authority and Leadership!



















Greetings:





I'm glad that Heirdoug mentioned that God led the great men of Israel

into battle, and all they had to do was clean up after the divine

warrior and his heavenly host (=army).





Now, that's what I would call a real sissified military culture,

where Israel men of the chest were not able to win their own

battles.  At the battle for Jericho, all these he-men had to do was

march around the city and blow some horns and the Lord God did all

the heavy work for them.  Let's all encourage our brave young men to

put away their AK-47s and practice their instruments for the Marine 
Corps Band!





I now ask Ed the Viking:  What is the difference between this and our

boys playing soccer with the Iraqis and rebuilding their

schools?  One difference I see is that the civilian causalities are

far less and we have at least a chance at winning some hearts and

minds.  When Yahweh was finished with Israel's enemies, there were no

hearts and minds left.





Remember when Moses came back after a fair fight with the Midianite

warriors in Numbers 31?  He came to Moses and told him that he had

forgot to kill all the old men, women, and boys.  Only the virgin

girls were to be saved for the Israelite Wrights and Sitlers.





For some scholarly reading on the subject please see Millard Lind's

"Yahweh is a Warrior: The Theology of Warfare in Ancient Israel."





Nick Gier





At 06:38 AM 7/11/2007, you wrote:



>Andreas,



>



>Sorry for not getting right back to you.



>



>I find your comment about Deborah to be common. Most egalitarians, 
such



>as your self, retreat back to this one example as God's justification



>for women in leadership and as you suggest, women in combat. If you



>read the passages in Judges 4 again (or for the first time) you might



>notice that Deborah was a Judge over Israel during a period of God's



>judgment because Israel "again did evil in the sight of the Lord".



>



>Deborah was a Judge she was not the commander of the army. That was



>left to a man, Barak. When Israel came up to her for judgment she told



>them what the Lord God wanted them to hear. She told Barak to assemble



>an army of 10,000 MEN and march on the enemy. It's also interesting,



>and often left out of the conversation by most egalitarians, that she



>was married and was identified as a wife to Lappidoth.



>



>Deborah told Barak that the enemy would be defeated at the hand of a



>woman. This would have been a humiliation to them and part of their



>judgment. The victory would come to Israel by a woman's hand. That 
hand



>was not Deborah's but Jael (the wife of Heber). The part I like about



>this story is the way that Jael dispatched Sisera with a tent peg 
right



>in the ear "and it went through into the ground." How cool is that!



>



>There was no military leadership on Deborah's part. She did not ride



>first into battle with sword in hand and yodeling like Zena, warrior



>princess. The leadership was all God's. The Lord went "out before"



>them. She went along as an observer and a singer. The men carried out



>the clean up warfare and carried all the weapons.



>



>But alas even after this victory Israel went back to sinning just as



>before and so God gave them into the hands of Midian. Then God sent



>them another Judge, Gideon, to correct them.



>



>I hope this "works for you" and helps your understanding. I wouldn't



>want you to be confused and think that Deborah was anything like Zena!



>



>



>



>lemeno, Doug!



>



>



>



>PS Is telling someone to "Shut Up" one of the tactics you are learning



>in law school.



>



>



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