[Vision2020] [Bulk] Re: church and paintball

Paul Rumelhart godshatter at yahoo.com
Sun Jul 1 22:02:36 PDT 2007


If that's the reason behind the paintball games, then it could be 
important.  If they actually think they are providing good training by 
playing paintball, though, they have something to learn from the 
military.  Only a small fraction of people can shoot a stranger with no 
training when they know the gun they are holding in their hands is real, 
the ammo is live, and the target is a live human being that they've 
never even heard of let alone are angry at.  That's where the training 
comes in.  I'm no expert in this, but I doubt that running around 
plinking friends with known-to-be-mostly-harmless weapons desensitizes 
them much.  If they start drilling their members in a strict disciplined 
environment that dehumanizes their enemies and that involves the firing 
of live weapons against targets representative of them, then I'll get 
worried. 

My guess is that they just want a fun group activity to participate in.

Paul

Mark Solomon wrote:
> Paul,
>
> My problem is with the concept that churches might believe that it is 
> important for their congregation to be winners or conquerors. There 
> are lots of other ways of building group trust and problem solving 
> ability that don't involve subduing an enemy.
>
> I've got a paintball gun myself. It's a good tool, not a toy. I used 
> to use it to mark range cows that were trespassing on my land as a 
> non-verbal message to the rancher to do a better job of controlling 
> his stock. Haven't had a problem now for years.
>
> Mark
>
> At 9:13 AM -0700 7/1/07, Paul Rumelhart wrote:
>> In my opinion, as long as you have a good grasp of the line between 
>> fantasy and reality it shouldn't be a problem.  In that respect, it's 
>> like video games. 
>>
>> I've played paintball, and it has more in common with the old games 
>> we used to play in the woods as boy scouts than it does with actual 
>> military training or conditioning.  You know it's not real, which 
>> completely changes the dynamic.  Nobody is drilling you, telling you 
>> how you might just kill somebody if you screw up, nobody is making it 
>> plain that other lives may one day depend upon your performance.  
>> It's just fun.
>>
>> A lot of companies use it as a team-building exercise, because (if 
>> you want to win) it forces you to rely upon someone else and to be 
>> relied upon to achieve a goal.  It also enhances your problem-solving 
>> skills.  I see no conflict with religious groups doing the same 
>> thing, myself.
>>
>> Paul
>>
>> Ellen Roskovich wrote:
>>> *Dancing and making joyous noise is a far cry from slithering around 
>>> in the bushes, taking pot shots at your buddies and keeping score on 
>>> how many kills you have.*
>>> *Call me a fuddy duddy if you wish.  No, I'll even do it for you. . 
>>> . I'm a fuddy duddy.  I do not like organized "games" that condition 
>>> people to kill off their fellow humans. *
>>> *I would cringe at any group organizing this activity for kids and 
>>> it would have opened the door for "discussion" at our household.*
>>> *Ellen A. Roskovich*
>>>
>>>
>>>  
>>>
>>>     ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>
>>>     From:/ "g. crabtree"/ /<jampot at adelphia.net>/
>>>     <mailto:jampot at adelphia.net>
>>>     To: /<vision2020 at moscow.com>/ <mailto:vision2020 at moscow.com>/,
>>>     "Mark Solomon"/ /<msolomon at moscow.com>/ <mailto:msolomon at moscow.com>
>>>     Subject:/ Re: [Vision2020] church and paintball/
>>>     Date:/ Sun, 1 Jul 2007 07:26:41 -0700/
>>>
>>>     BLOCKQUOTE {padding-bottom:0px;padding-top:0px;} DL
>>>     {padding-bottom:0px;padding-top:0px;} UL
>>>     {padding-bottom:0px;padding-top:0px;} OL
>>>     {padding-bottom:0px;padding-top:0px;} LI
>>>     {padding-bottom:0px;padding-top:0px;}
>>>
>>>     Absolutely! Any time the Churched strip off their sack cloth and
>>>     ash and venture forth from their cloisters I worry that they
>>>     might have something resembling a good time. Next thing you know
>>>     they'll be dancing and making a joyous noise and goodness knows
>>>     we can't have any of that.
>>>
>>>      
>>>
>>>     g
>>>
>>>      
>>>
>>>      
>>>
>>>      
>>>
>>>         ----- Original Message -----
>>>
>>>         *From:* Mark Solomon <mailto:msolomon at moscow.com>
>>>
>>>         *To:* vision2020 at moscow.com <mailto:vision2020 at moscow.com>
>>>
>>>         *Sent:* Sunday, July 01, 2007 5:32 AM
>>>
>>>         *Subject:* [Vision2020] church and paintball
>>>
>>>
>>>         Does anyone else find this as disturbing as I do? (I'd post
>>>         a link to the full story, the rest of which is a straight
>>>         business story about paintball, but the Tribune is a
>>>         subscriber only website.)
>>>
>>>
>>>         Mark
>>>
>>>
>>>         *********
>>>
>>>
>>>         *Aiming for fun, with a license to thrill*
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>         By Elaine Williams of the Tribune
>>>         Sunday, July 1, 2007
>>>
>>>
>>>         Church groups are among the most frequent customers of FTW
>>>         Paintball, a store that recently opened in Lewiston.
>>>
>>>         The organizers find that playing paintball is a way to
>>>         create relationships among their members, said Marty
>>>         Frostad, owner of the business.
>>>
>>>         ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>
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