[Vision2020] [OFF LIST] Them Godless Liberals

Tue Jan 30 07:34:59 PST 2007

Gary,

Perhaps you have to grow up in the culture in which the language is 
used to understand the intent of words, especially idiomatic curses. 
While it is certainly true that curse words can be used in an 
affectionate manner within the originating culture, it is rarely the 
case that they are used in that way outside the culture. My intention 
here is not to engage in a linguistic debate, but to point out that 
there is no place for publicly cursing another member of this on-line 
community in any language.

Mark

At 7:25 AM -0800 1/30/07, g. crabtree wrote:
>My goodness, why would referring to someone as a good 50% (or 
>better) of the populations favorite appendage be considered 
>"obscenely cursing?" Mildly disparaging, I'll grant you, perhaps 
>even a smidge rude but, your characterization seems a little out of 
>proportion to the comment.
>
>"The word putz is from Yiddish, where it literally means 'the 
>penis'. Like so many other words for the penis, though, it is also 
>used--much more frequently--in the figurative sense 'an offensive or 
>foolish person; jerk'. As such it can be the subject of typical 
>double-entendre jokes (e.g., foolishly dressed tourist in Israel 
>takes a ride on a camel, announces to wife that it was a male camel, 
>wife asks how he knew, man replies, "Everyone was saying 'Look at 
>the putz on that camel!'"). "
>
>"Putz is first found, in both literal and figurative senses, in the 
>1930s. It is from Yiddish puts 'an ornament; finery', which is 
>related to German words meaning 'to clean' or 'to decorate'."
>
>George Wolf at Mavens' Word of the Day
>
>
>
>While I would be reluctant to refer to hansen as any kind of 
>ornament myself, who am I to judge other people's choice of 
>descriptive. Also, considering some of the things that have been 
>said on this forum, why the sudden shift from liberal crusader to 
>language decency cop?
>
>
>
>g
>
>----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark Solomon" <msolomon at moscow.com>
>To: <heirdoug at netscape.net>; <thansen at moscow.com>; <vision2020 at moscow.com>
>Sent: Tuesday, January 30, 2007 6:36 AM
>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] [OFF LIST] Them Godless Liberals
>
>>As someone who grew up speaking Yiddish in a Jewish neighborhood,
>>watch your mouth. Obscenely cursing in a language other than English
>>is still obscenely cursing.
>>
>>Mark
>>
>>At 9:21 AM -0500 1/30/07, heirdoug at netscape.net wrote:
>>>Tom,
>>>
>>>Who says that I am endorsing you!
>>>
>>>You're such a Putz!
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>From: thansen at moscow.com
>>>To: heirdoug at netscape.net
>>>Sent: Tue, 30 Jan 2007 7:18 AM
>>>Subject: RE: [OFF LIST]  Them Godless Liberals
>>>
>>>Cool.
>>>
>>>Thanks for the endorsement, No-Clue.
>>>
>>>Hansen
>>>
>>>*************************************************************************
>>>***
>>>
>>>"A bad cause will ever be supported by bad means and bad men."
>>>
>>>- Thomas Paine (English Writer, 1737-1809)
>>>
>>>*************************************************************************
>>>***
>>>
>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>From: vision2020-bounces at moscow.com [mailto:vision2020-bounces at moscow.com]
>>>On Behalf Of heirdoug at netscape.net
>>>Sent: Tuesday, January 30, 2007 6:15 AM
>>>To: idahotom at hotmail.com; vision2020 at moscow.com
>>>Subject: [Vision2020] Them Godless Liberals
>>>
>>>Tom-Tom,
>>>
>>>Maybe if we put his comments back into the context into which he stated
>>>them we MIGHT be able to start to understand just what his intent
>>>was.... Ya think!
>>>
>>>Next time if you are trying to malign someone do with a little more
>>>class. OK! If one is to read the second to last sentance in Chris'
>>>argument one might think Tom, Chris knew who you were!
>>>
>>>By the way Tom, you must want to "overhear every tedious scrap of brain
>>>static rattling around in" Dale's head, you read his blog all the time!
>>>
>>>And now, from Right-Mind.us:
>>>
>>>
>>>Sobering words
>>>From a speech in New Hampshire by former Speaker of the House, Newt
>>>Gingrich.
>>>
>>>Not a politically correct speech.
>>>
>>>
>>>"The third thing I want to talk about very briefly is the genuine
>>>danger of terrorism, in particular terrorists using weapons of mass
>>>destruction and weapons of mass murder, nuclear and biological weapons.
>>>And I want to suggest to you that right now we should be impaneling
>>>people to look seriously at a level of supervision that we would never
>>>dream of if it weren't for the scale of threat.
>>>Let me give you two examples. When the British this summer arrested
>>>people who were planning to blow up ten airliners in one day, they
>>>arrested a couple who were going to use their six month old baby in
>>>order to hide the bomb as baby milk.
>>>"Now, if I come to you tonight and say that there are people on the
>>>planet who hate you, and they are 15-25 year old males who are willing
>>>to die as long as they get to kill you, I've simply described the
>>>warrior culture which has been true historically for 6 or 7 thousand
>>>years.
>>>"But, if I come to you and say that there is a couple that hates you so
>>>much that they will kill their six month old baby in order to kill you,
>>>I am describing a level of ferocity, and a level of savagery beyond
>>>anything we have tried to deal with.
>>>And, what is truly frightening about the British experience is they are
>>>arresting British citizens, born in Britain, speaking English, who went
>>>to British schools, live in British housing, and have good jobs.
>>>"This is a serious long term war, and it will inevitably lead us to
>>>want to know what is said in every suspect place in the country, that
>>>will lead us to learn how to close down every website that is
>>>dangerous, and it will lead us to a very severe approach to people who
>>>advocate the killing of Americans and advocate the use of nuclear or
>>>biological weapons.
>>>"And, my prediction to you is that either before we lose a city, or if
>>>we are truly stupid, after we lose a city, we will adopt rules of
>>>engagement that use every technology we can find to break up their
>>>capacity to use the internet, to break up their capacity to use free
>>>speech, and to go after people who want to kill us to stop them from
>>>recruiting people before they get to reach out and convince young
>>>people to destroy their lives while destroying us.
>>>"This is a serious problem that will lead to a serious debate about the
>>>first amendment, but I think that the national security threat of
>>>losing an American city to a nuclear weapon, or losing several million
>>>Americans to a biological attack is so real that we need to
>>>proactively, now, develop the appropriate rules of engagement.
>>>"And, I further think that we should propose a Geneva convention for
>>>fighting terrorism which makes very clear that those who would fight
>>>outside the rules of law, those who would use weapons of mass
>>>destruction, and those who would target civilians are in fact subject
>>>to a totally different set of rules that allow us to protect
>>>civilization by defeating barbarism before it gains so much strength
>>>that it is truly horrendous.
>>>"This is a sober topic, but I think it is a topic we need a national
>>>dialogue about, and we need to get ahead of the curve rather than wait
>>>until actually we literary lose a city which could literally happen
>>>within the next decade if we are unfortunate. So
>>>
>>>(APPLAUSE)
>>>
>>>"This is a very sober description of the Islamic terrorist threat we
>>>are faced with. We are NOW at war with a culture that wants, not to
>>>take over our land, but to KILL us.
>>>
>>>Published Tuesday, January 30, 2007 3:55 AM by Right-Mind
>>>
>>>Comments
>>>
>>># One thing that we need is a concept of covenantal/federal/corporate
>>>responsibility
>>>
>>>Newt's comments are very good as far as they go, but he is still not
>>>getting to the real core of the matter. Islamic terrorists are not
>>>trying to attack the West outside of and apart from God's sovereignty.
>>>God is allowing this to happen, and He is allowing it to happen for a
>>>reason. We need to ask ourselves, "Why is God allowing Islamic
>>>terrorists to launch attacks against the West NOW? What is the message
>>>the God is trying to tell us through all this?" And the message is that
>>>He wants us all to turn away from our sins and to turn unto Him. The
>>>pack of decadent, godless, liberal (libertine) socialist
>>>revolutionaries that the West has been gradually morphing into was
>>>becoming what it was becoming in a process of TURNING AWAY FROM GOD.
>>>Did we really think that God wasn't there? Did we really think that God
>>>doesn't CARE? He is there, and He does care, and thus he has allowed
>>>Islamic terrorists to come into our midst. When the West becomes truly
>>>Christian once again, God will show us the way out of the mess that we
>>>are in, and He will lead us to victory and peace. But if anyone thinks
>>>that we can deal effectively with the problem of Islamic terrorism --
>>>which is really a symptom rather than the real underlying problem
>>>itself -- without addressing the more fundamental problem of how we as
>>>individuals and as a society are to relate to the Christian God, that
>>>person is not in a position to find a genuine solution. This much is
>>>clear: there is no point in making the world safe for moral degeneracy
>>>and godlessness. If that's the sort of "freedom" that West stands for,
>>>it's not worth defending.
>>>
>>>Tuesday, January 30, 2007 4:39 AM by cdwitmer
>>>
>>>
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