[Vision2020] Compassion for All Life
Carl Westberg
carlwestberg846 at hotmail.com
Thu Jan 25 10:13:53 PST 2007
" Meat consumption was a major factor in the brain growth of our species".
I'm not entirely sure that's such a good thing. Carl Westberg Jr.
>From: "Kai Eiselein, editor" <editor at lataheagle.com>
>To: "Nick Gier" <ngier at uidaho.edu>, <vision2020 at moscow.com>
>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Compassion for All Life
>Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2007 10:04:20 -0800
>
>Nick,
>I'll agree with you about oil, however I'll disagree with you about "animal
>flesh" aka "meat".
>First of all, had early hominids NOT started eating meat, you would not now
>be a professor. Meat consumption was a major factor in the brain growth of
>our species, which in turn allowed us to "think". Meat is a natural part of
>the human diet, plain and simple.
>Secondly, before you get all selfrighteous about vegetarians not killing
>animals, remember this: Farming the ground kills more animals than hunting
>does. Think about it. Mice, voles, birds all fall victim to farming,
>therefore, farming amounts to mass murder in your frame of thinking.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: vision2020-bounces at moscow.com
>[mailto:vision2020-bounces at moscow.com]On Behalf Of Nick Gier
> Sent: Thursday, January 25, 2007 9:41 AM
> To: vision2020 at moscow.com
> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Compassion for All Life
>
>
> Greetings:
>
> If "significant cognitive functioning" (beautiful description of the
>traditional view!) is not the way we sort out persons from non-persons,
>then
>please join with me in extending unconditional compassion to all the
>animals
>that are killed every day to feed the several billion carnivorous maws all
>over the world.
>
> This is an unnecessary slaughter because we can grow complete vegetable
>protein at a much lower cost and with much less damage to the environment.
>Just as the earth and its atmosphere cannot bear developing countries
>owning
>as many cars as we do, neither can the earth bear the increased meat
>consumption that these countries are experiencing.
>
> Both addictions, one to oil and the other to animal flesh, will be the
>end
>of us. Millions of acres of the Amazonian rain forest are cut ever year to
>make way for raising beef cattle, pouring tons of CO2 and CH4 (from bovine
>stomachs) into the air.
>
> If the tradition distinction between persons and non-persons is ignored,
>then the only moral option is to recognize that all life has a serious
>moral
>right to live.
>
> Veggie Burgers Forever!
>
> Nick Gier
>
> Oh professor, how you cling to a specious distinction. You may view
>"significant cognitive functioning" as helpful in defining personhood so as
>to rationalize killing, but it is still the taking of a human life. For
>humans who were allowed to grow to adulthood unmolested to decide to kill
>those who have yet to develope fully is the very height of callousness and
>insensetivity. You can blame tradition all you like but as I pointed out,
>tradition is frequently wrong and in this case you are tragically wrong
>along with it.
>
> What kind of an ethical vacuum do you live in which regards the murder
>of the innocent as a "good tradition?" If you truly believe this, you are
>not being intellectually honest, but rather morally bankrupt.
>
> Now go grow some compassion. -T
>
> ----- Original Message -----
>
> From: Nick Gier
>
> To: vision2020 at moscow.com
>
> Sent: Thursday, January 25, 2007 8:59 AM
>
> Subject: [Vision2020] African Americans and Fetuses
>
>
> Greetings:
>
>
> The traditional view of moral and legal persons, coming from our
>combined religious, moral, and legal histories, eventually won out with
>regard to recognizing African Americans as full moral and legal persons.
>In
>my article on abortion I've applied the same definition to the early fetus
>and the logic of the definition does not fit. To force fit a definition is
>simple intellectual dishonesty.
>
>
> Therefore, there is no moral equivalence between recognizing people
>of
>color as persons and fetuses before 25 weeks.
>
>
> Just being a good conservative by preserving good traditions,
>
>
> Nick Gier
>
>
> At 07:25 AM 1/25/2007, you wrote:
>
> Yes Nick, and under our laws in 1850, black folks could be held as
>slaves. The point is professor, that it is high time the rights the rest
>of
>us enjoy are extended to today's disenfranchised: the unborn. How
>disappointing to see you on the wrong side of history this time. Would you
>have rationalized the Dred Scott decision in its day?
>
>
>
> Tragic.
>
>
>
> -T
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Nick Gier
> To: Tony
> Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2007 9:31 AM
> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] One More "Killer" Released Because of
>DNA
>
> Greetings:
>
> Under our laws the crime of murder can happen only against moral
>and legal persons. Our religious, moral, and legal tradition does not
>recognize first and second trimester fetuses as persons. Once again I
>provide the link for my essay on abortion:
>www.class.uidaho.edu/ngier/abortion.htm.
> Fetuses are of course biological human beings from conception
>on,
>but so are thousands of other animal species. As a vegetarian I'm quite
>willing to shift to a consistent pro-life position, but I believe that most
>people are not willing to do this. The moral ball is in their court, and
>it's their serve.
>
> Veggie Burgers Forever!
>
> Nick Gier
>
> At 09:22 AM 1/24/2007, you wrote:
> Nick, I was heartened to see you change your mind with regard
>to
>abortion. You are absolutely correct that the state should not be in the
>business of premeditated murder, especially in the case of those who are
>innocent in EVERY case. It is such a joy to see reason and compassion
>prevail. Best, -T ----- Original Message ----- From:
><nickgier at adelphia.net> To: <vision2020 at moscow.com> Sent: Wednesday,
>January
>24, 2007 8:57 AM Subject: [Vision2020] One More "Killer" Released Because
>of
>DNA > Greetings: > > Fortunately, most DNA exonerations are happening with
>prisoners who are > still alive. The real injustice, however, is those,
>now
>over 100, who > were executed before the tests could be done. > > The state
>should not be in the business of premeditated murder, especially > if it
>cannot be sure of that its victims are guilty. > > Nick Gier > > January
>24,
>2007, NY Times > With DNA From Exhumed Body, Man Finally Wins Freedom > By
>FERNANDA SANTOS > > AUBURN, N.Y., Jan. 23 — Roy Brown, who spent 15 yeears
>in prison on a > murder conviction and uncovered evidence while there that
>linked another > man to the crime, was released from prison on Tuesday
>after
>DNA tests on > the other man’s exhumed body matched saliva on a
>nightshirt
>at the crime > scene. > > After 15 years behind bars, Mr. Brown stepped out
>of court into a light > snowfall and gently pushed his way through a
>cluster
>of relatives who vied > for his attention. The reception was fine, he said,
>but he is too sick > with liver disease to stand on his feet for long. > >
>“Changes have got to be made, man,†Mr. Brown said later at a
>lawyer’s
> > office across the street, answering questions in a monotone as he rested
> >
>awkwardly in a black swivel chair. “They say the wheels of justice move >
>slowly, but you know what? The wheels of justice are flat.†> > Mr.
>Brown,
>46, is the eighth person in New York State exonerated through > DNA
>evidence
>in the past 13 months, more than in any other state during > the same
>period. > > The DNA tests that freed him confirmed the results of his own
>jailhouse > investigation, in which he discovered documents that
>incriminated Barry > Bench, a volunteer firefighter, in the murder of
>Sabina
>Kulakowski, 49, a > social worker who had lived with Mr. Bench’s brother
>until months before > her death. Earlier DNA tests conducted by Mr.
>Brown’s lawyers linked Mr. > Bench’s daughter, Katherine Eckstadt, to
>the genetic code lifted from the > saliva on Ms. Kulakowski’s nightshirt.
> > > ======================================================= > List
>services
>made available by First Step Internet, > serving the communities of the
>Palouse since 1994. > http://www.fsr.net >
>mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com >
>======================================================= > >
>======================================================= List services made
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>since 1994. http://www.fsr.net
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> "Truth is the summit of being; justice is the application of it
>to
>human affairs."
> --Ralph Waldo Emerson
>
> "Abstract truth has no value unless it incarnates in human
>beings
>who represent it, by proving their readiness to die for it."
> --Mohandas Gandhi
>
> "Modern physics has taught us that the nature of any system
>cannot
>be discovered by dividing it into its component parts and studying each
>part
>by itself. . . .We must keep our attention fixed on the whole and on the
>interconnection between the parts. The same is true of our intellectual
>life. It is impossible to make a clear cut between science, religion, and
>art. The whole is never equal simply to the sum of its various parts."
>--Max
>Planck
>
>
> Nicholas F. Gier
> Professor Emeritus, Department of Philosophy, University of
>Idaho
> 1037 Colt Rd., Moscow, ID 83843
> http://users.adelphia.net/~nickgier/home.htm
> 208-882-9212/FAX 885-8950
> President, Idaho Federation of Teachers, AFL-CIO
> http://users.adelphia.net/~nickgier/ift.htm
>
>
> "Truth is the summit of being; justice is the application of it to
>human
>affairs."
>
> --Ralph Waldo Emerson
>
>
> "Abstract truth has no value unless it incarnates in human beings who
>represent it, by proving their readiness to die for it."
>
> --Mohandas Gandhi
>
>
> "Modern physics has taught us that the nature of any system cannot be
>discovered by dividing it into its component parts and studying each part
>by
>itself. . . .We must keep our attention fixed on the whole and on the
>interconnection between the parts. The same is true of our intellectual
>life. It is impossible to make a clear cut between science, religion, and
>art. The whole is never equal simply to the sum of its various parts."
>--Max
>Planck
>
>
> Nicholas F. Gier
>
> Professor Emeritus, Department of Philosophy, University of Idaho
>
> 1037 Colt Rd., Moscow, ID 83843
>
> http://users.adelphia.net/~nickgier/home.htm
>
> 208-882-9212/FAX 885-8950
>
> President, Idaho Federation of Teachers, AFL-CIO
>
> http://users.adelphia.net/~nickgier/ift.htm
>
>
>----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> =======================================================
>
> List services made available by First Step Internet,
>
> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
>
> http://www.fsr.net
>
> mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
>
> =======================================================
>
>
> "Truth is the summit of being; justice is the application of it to human
>affairs."
> --Ralph Waldo Emerson
>
> "Abstract truth has no value unless it incarnates in human beings who
>represent it, by proving their readiness to die for it."
> --Mohandas Gandhi
>
> "Modern physics has taught us that the nature of any system cannot be
>discovered by dividing it into its component parts and studying each part
>by
>itself. . . .We must keep our attention fixed on the whole and on the
>interconnection between the parts. The same is true of our intellectual
>life. It is impossible to make a clear cut between science, religion, and
>art. The whole is never equal simply to the sum of its various parts."
>--Max
>Planck
>
> Nicholas F. Gier
> Professor Emeritus, Department of Philosophy, University of Idaho
> 1037 Colt Rd., Moscow, ID 83843
> http://users.adelphia.net/~nickgier/home.htm
> 208-882-9212/FAX 885-8950
> President, Idaho Federation of Teachers, AFL-CIO
> http://users.adelphia.net/~nickgier/ift.htm
>
>
>
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>=======================================================
> List services made available by First Step Internet,
> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
> http://www.fsr.net
> mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
>=======================================================
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