[Vision2020] Doug Wilson Interview

[Ted Moffett]

Chas et. al.

I appreciate your efforts to lessen the misunderstandings and useless
polarizations between differing Weltanschauungs on the Palouse.

I once received a ride from a van full of red garbed Bhagwan Shree devotees
(by the way, I meant to write "devout Catholics" not "devote Catholics" in
my prior post on Wilson's interview. Yikes!) on Hwy. 8 between Troy and
Moscow.  Very friendly, very peaceful, or so it seemed, and no attempts to
proselytize.  People individually are often so wonderful, regardless of
their faith!  It is when they are manipulated in groups with extreme
ideologies that the worst of human nature is expressed, and justified as
morally correct!  The lone mass murderer is condemned by all, but mass
murder in the name of God or the State is a holy cause or patriotic duty.

I agree that the Bhagwan Shree scenario is very unlikely to be duplicated in
Moscow via the power of Christ Church.  There are too many differing
Weltanschauungs in Moscow with significant influence.  However, I am puzzled
by your outline of how Moscow would change under your worst case, likely and
unlikely scenarios for the potential impacts of Christ Church.  You seem to
ignore some rather significant possibilities (perhaps you were joking?)
regarding how Christ Church might impact the lives of local residents:

Chas wrote:

Worst case scenario: the alarmists are right, and Moscow gets renamed
New Saint Andrewsville.  Instantly, I get fewer IM's in Russian.  The
streets swarm with well-dressed young people (no visible thongs), who
have vocabularies.  Not much else changes.

Likely scenario:  the alarmists are half-right, and Christ Church and
New Saint Andrews continue to absorb more real estate.  The streets
are minimally populated with well-dressed young people (no visible
thongs), who have vocabularies, and loads of guys in shiny baggy
basketball shorts, and Paris Hilton wannabes.  Not much else changes.

Least-likely scenario: the alarmists chase Christ Church and New Saint
Andrews out of Moscow.  The streets have a few well-dressed young
people (no visible thongs), who have vocabularies, and loads of guys
in shiny baggy basketball shorts, and Paris Hilton wannabes.  Not much
else changes.
-------
Given your focus on how well dressed people on the streets might be, I'll
mention only one significant impact of Christ Church on Moscow that has
already occurred, that you appear to ignore (why focus on thongs given the
facts I will mention?), that I think is relevant to this discussion.

Recall the hysteria to push through a topless ordinance a few years ago,
inspired by the topless car wash?  The ordinance making the exposure of a
women's breast a crime, written so strictly that many swimming suits and
evening gowns, strictly speaking, if worn in public, are a crime?  There is
significant evidence the Moscow City Council, which at that time had a
Christ Church member, passed this ordinance in part with an organized effort
from Christ Church to push it through.  Others on this list who have
monitored Christ Church's activities can provide the evidence.

It appears local law enforcement has enough common sense to not go around
enforcing the letter of the law expressed in this ordinance. Moscow City
Councilman John Dickinson, in one of his rare posts to Vision2020, thought
the language of this ordinance to be objectionable enough to publicly state
his views.  This ordinance is but a small example of the impacts that the
increasing influence of Christ Church, with members on the local city
council, might have.  What about an ordinance making it a crime for same sex
couples to kiss in public?  Is such an ordinance a stretch if Christ
Church controlled the city council?

I suspect that the swing in the Moscow City Council toward a more
progressive orientation, after the passing of the nudity ordinance, was in
part inspired by community awareness of the growing power of Christ Church,
with subsequent activism to block city council seats being controlled by
Christ Church, using the power of the vote.

Ted wrote previously:

> New Saint Andrews excludes those of other faiths from taking advantage of
> their educational offerings.  Correct me if I am wrong.  Name another
> institution in downtown Moscow that excludes offering their services to
> those of other faiths?

Chas replied:

If this is the policy of New Saint Andrews, then it saddens me.  I
personally don't find it that heinous, but I still find it unpleasant.
I don't really have any other comment.  I'll have to cogitate for a
while.
---------
While Christ Church asserts that they are the victims of harassment by some
wishing to push them out, they exclude those of other faiths from using some
of their related institutions.  What is there is cogitate?  It seems counter
to the basic ideas of religious tolerance, the peaceful relations between
faiths, to establish an institution of so called "higher learning" that bans
other faiths.  Why not allow a Muslim or a Catholic to take courses at New
Saint Andrews?  Or a seeking agnostic, or atheist wishing to understand
Christianity, for that matter?  As long as they conduct themselves in a
reasonable fashion, with respect, etc.  I know there is an open invitation
to attend their church services, but as far as I know, and someone correct
me if I am wrong, students at both Logos and New Saint Andrews must profess
the form of Christianity that Christ Church follows.  St. Mary's school, and
again someone correct me if I am wrong, does not engage in this form of
strict exclusion, and certainly the Catholic university Gonzaga in Spokane
welcomes students of all faiths.

New Saint Andrews has the legal right to exclude those of other faiths, of
course, but this exclusion suggests that the claim that Christ Church is
facing forces wishing to exclude them is to some extent projection.

The holding of a religiously diverse potluck and series of workshops for the
expression of diverse religious views is a great idea...if Christ Church
leaders were willing to participate in a religiously diverse series of
workshops on religious issues on equal "footing" with other faiths.

On the issue of racism and "Southern Slavery, As It Was," I do not think
explicit racism is practiced or believed in their day to day conduct by
Christ Church members, or by Wilson.  But the issue is more complex than
this.

Wilson's views on the history of slavery are problematic, to put it mildly,
and his reconstruction of history regarding slavery in the USA does actual
harm when it is taught to youth in schools, as it is both here and in other
communities, using educational materials distributed by Christ Church
associated business's, misleading young minds about the reality of US
history regarding slavery, shockingly!  This is not a minor issue, to my
mind, given that it can lead to almost unintentional racist attitudes or
behaviors, when the reality of the impacts of slavery on Blacks in the USA
are not understood or are thought to be exaggerated.  Much more could be
said about this issue...

I think the issues of gay and women's rights are more important to the real
world impacts of Christ Church in the local community than Wilson's booklet,
"Southern Slavery, As It Was."  However, the potential exists to attract
"racists" to the area given Christ Church and Wilson's national notoriety,
and the connection between Wilson and followers of the League of the South,
etc.  You may think this possibility to be extremely small.  Perhaps it is.

Ted wrote previously:

> Is Chas saying that activism to oppose Christ Church should be stopped?

Chas replied:

No, that's not was Chas is saying.  Chas is saying that our activism
should never appear vindictive.  We need to appear more reasonable
than our opponents.  I've been an ass on this forum, and I probably
will be again, knowing my own weaknesses.  However, it has to stop.
The court of public opinion is an important one in battles of this
nature, and we too often are seen with our pants down.  The juvenilia
must stop, regardless of how much our foes test us.  If we respond in
kind, we lose.
------

I agree.

Ted wrote previously:

> Chas, do you support Hansen's web site?

Chas replied:

Tom's website is a useful resource, and I support it in that sense, if
that is what you mean.
------

I mean more than just that it is a "useful resource."  I mean that you
support the strong message "Not On The Palouse" expressed on the main web
page, with the X over the confederate flag (with "League of the South"
partially obscured in the flag), in the context of the connections between
Christ Church and those of this form of thinking.

http://www.tomandrodna.com/notonthepalouse/

Ted Moffett
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