<div> </div>
<div>Chas et. al.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>I appreciate your efforts to lessen the misunderstandings and useless polarizations between differing Weltanschauungs on the Palouse. </div>
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<div>I once received a ride from a van full of red garbed Bhagwan Shree devotees (by the way, I meant to write "devout Catholics" not "devote Catholics" in my prior post on Wilson's interview. Yikes!) on Hwy. 8 between Troy and Moscow. Very friendly, very peaceful, or so it seemed, and no attempts to proselytize. People individually are often so wonderful, regardless of their faith! It is when they are manipulated in groups with extreme ideologies that the worst of human nature is expressed, and justified as morally correct! The lone mass murderer is condemned by all, but mass murder in the name of God or the State is a holy cause or patriotic duty.
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<div>I agree that the Bhagwan Shree scenario is very unlikely to be duplicated in Moscow via the power of Christ Church. There are too many differing Weltanschauungs in Moscow with significant influence. However, I am puzzled by your outline of how Moscow would change under your worst case, likely and unlikely scenarios for the potential impacts of Christ Church. You seem to ignore some rather significant possibilities (perhaps you were joking?) regarding how Christ Church might impact the lives of local residents:
<br><br>Chas wrote:<br><br>Worst case scenario: the alarmists are right, and Moscow gets renamed<br>New Saint Andrewsville. Instantly, I get fewer IM's in Russian. The<br>streets swarm with well-dressed young people (no visible thongs), who
<br>have vocabularies. Not much else changes.<br><br>Likely scenario: the alarmists are half-right, and Christ Church and<br>New Saint Andrews continue to absorb more real estate. The streets<br>are minimally populated with well-dressed young people (no visible
<br>thongs), who have vocabularies, and loads of guys in shiny baggy<br>basketball shorts, and Paris Hilton wannabes. Not much else changes.<br><br>Least-likely scenario: the alarmists chase Christ Church and New Saint<br>
Andrews out of Moscow. The streets have a few well-dressed young<br>people (no visible thongs), who have vocabularies, and loads of guys<br>in shiny baggy basketball shorts, and Paris Hilton wannabes. Not much<br>else changes.
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<div>Given your focus on how well dressed people on the streets might be, I'll mention only one significant impact of Christ Church on Moscow that has already occurred, that you appear to ignore (why focus on thongs given the facts I will mention?), that I think is relevant to this discussion.
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<div>Recall the hysteria to push through a topless ordinance a few years ago, inspired by the topless car wash? The ordinance making the exposure of a women's breast a crime, written so strictly that many swimming suits and evening gowns, strictly speaking, if worn in public, are a crime? There is significant evidence the Moscow City Council, which at that time had a Christ Church member, passed this ordinance in part with an organized effort from Christ Church to push it through. Others on this list who have monitored Christ Church's activities can provide the evidence.
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<div>It appears local law enforcement has enough common sense to not go around enforcing the letter of the law expressed in this ordinance. Moscow City Councilman John Dickinson, in one of his rare posts to Vision2020, thought the language of this ordinance to be objectionable enough to publicly state his views. This ordinance is but a small example of the impacts that the increasing influence of Christ Church, with members on the local city council, might have. What about an ordinance making it a crime for same sex couples to kiss in public? Is such an ordinance a stretch if Christ Church controlled the city council?
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<div>I suspect that the swing in the Moscow City Council toward a more progressive orientation, after the passing of the nudity ordinance, was in part inspired by community awareness of the growing power of Christ Church, with subsequent activism to block city council seats being controlled by Christ Church, using the power of the vote.
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<div>Ted wrote previously:<br><br>> New Saint Andrews excludes those of other faiths from taking advantage of<br>> their educational offerings. Correct me if I am wrong. Name another<br>> institution in downtown Moscow that excludes offering their services to
<br>> those of other faiths?<br> </div>
<div>Chas replied:</div>
<div><br>If this is the policy of New Saint Andrews, then it saddens me. I<br>personally don't find it that heinous, but I still find it unpleasant.<br>I don't really have any other comment. I'll have to cogitate for a
<br>while.</div>
<div>---------</div>
<div>While Christ Church asserts that they are the victims of harassment by some wishing to push them out, they exclude those of other faiths from using some of their related institutions. What is there is cogitate? It seems counter to the basic ideas of religious tolerance, the peaceful relations between faiths, to establish an institution of so called "higher learning" that bans other faiths. Why not allow a Muslim or a Catholic to take courses at New Saint Andrews? Or a seeking agnostic, or atheist wishing to understand Christianity, for that matter? As long as they conduct themselves in a reasonable fashion, with respect, etc. I know there is an open invitation to attend their church services, but as far as I know, and someone correct me if I am wrong, students at both Logos and New Saint Andrews must profess the form of Christianity that Christ Church follows. St. Mary's school, and again someone correct me if I am wrong, does not engage in this form of strict exclusion, and certainly the Catholic university Gonzaga in Spokane welcomes students of all faiths.
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<div>New Saint Andrews has the legal right to exclude those of other faiths, of course, but this exclusion suggests that the claim that Christ Church is facing forces wishing to exclude them is to some extent projection.
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<div>The holding of a religiously diverse potluck and series of workshops for the expression of diverse religious views is a great idea...if Christ Church leaders were willing to participate in a religiously diverse series of workshops on religious issues on equal "footing" with other faiths.
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<div>On the issue of racism and "Southern Slavery, As It Was," I do not think explicit racism is practiced or believed in their day to day conduct by Christ Church members, or by Wilson. But the issue is more complex than this.
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<div>Wilson's views on the history of slavery are problematic, to put it mildly, and his reconstruction of history regarding slavery in the USA does actual harm when it is taught to youth in schools, as it is both here and in other communities, using educational materials distributed by Christ Church associated business's, misleading young minds about the reality of US history regarding slavery, shockingly! This is not a minor issue, to my mind, given that it can lead to almost unintentional racist attitudes or behaviors, when the reality of the impacts of slavery on Blacks in the USA are not understood or are thought to be exaggerated. Much more could be said about this issue...
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<div>I think the issues of gay and women's rights are more important to the real world impacts of Christ Church in the local community than Wilson's booklet, "Southern Slavery, As It Was." However, the potential exists to attract "racists" to the area given Christ Church and Wilson's national notoriety, and the connection between Wilson and followers of the League of the South, etc. You may think this possibility to be extremely small. Perhaps it is.
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<div>Ted wrote previously:</div>
<div><br>> Is Chas saying that activism to oppose Christ Church should be stopped?<br> </div>
<div>Chas replied:</div>
<div><br>No, that's not was Chas is saying. Chas is saying that our activism<br>should never appear vindictive. We need to appear more reasonable<br>than our opponents. I've been an ass on this forum, and I probably
<br>will be again, knowing my own weaknesses. However, it has to stop.<br>The court of public opinion is an important one in battles of this<br>nature, and we too often are seen with our pants down. The juvenilia<br>must stop, regardless of how much our foes test us. If we respond in
<br>kind, we lose.<br>------</div>
<div> </div>
<div>I agree.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>Ted wrote previously:<br> </div>
<div>> Chas, do you support Hansen's web site?</div>
<div> </div>
<div>Chas replied:<br><br>Tom's website is a useful resource, and I support it in that sense, if<br>that is what you mean.</div>
<div>------</div>
<div> </div>
<div>I mean more than just that it is a "useful resource." I mean that you support the strong message "Not On The Palouse" expressed on the main web page, with the X over the confederate flag (with "League of the South" partially obscured in the flag), in the context of the connections between Christ Church and those of this form of thinking.
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<div><a href="http://www.tomandrodna.com/notonthepalouse/">http://www.tomandrodna.com/notonthepalouse/</a></div>
<div><br>Ted Moffett</div>