[Vision2020] Moscow's Growth Policies Don't ApplytoWhitman(ordothey?)
david sarff
davesway at hotmail.com
Mon Jan 15 21:21:16 PST 2007
Hello Kai,
Some years ago, during the great terrorism scare of the late 1800’s , when
Chief Joseph and Looking Glass were on the rampage and the locals were
engaged in practicing homeland security. My Great, Great, Grandparents had
come up the river earlier because congress told the public that the property
of the west was open to them. Not to long after they built along the river
the family was brought into Colfax for their protection. They were very
frightened about the situation as the US Army tended to there usual work,
doing their jobs, representing the country and unfortunately chasing around
and killing a bunch of really quite innocent folks, and calling it a war.
After the Army got things all nice and secure , setting up some forts here
and there. The US citizens and my family continued to go about their
business and exploit the resources as they were led to believe that
everything was on the up n up. And you know, not much seems to have
changed, including people with attitudes like yours.
My local family stomping grounds runs up the river from the ocean to about
Palouse falls, then up to Sandpoint and back down to the North Fork. There
are a couple homesteads underwater and one under PFI. If you haven’t
noticed, the fishing has been real bad for a considerable period of time and
the eels are completely gone. The soil has gotten damp enough that the few
fish left swim over it.
Four generations have been in Moscow proper. If you get buried in any
cemetery in Latah county, you can thank one of my granddads, Clarence Jenks,
for setting up the county districts. He was a Moscow Chamber pres and
printer for the Daily Star and Queen city printing, If you meet, I’m
certain you’ll get along with him quite well…His better half is simply
wonderful.
He said that the "City with a Smile" slogan was rues. I see that the signs
have been removed. Kind of metaphorical, really.
I grew up in town and got side tracked by my very good high school ag
instructor, Kirk Rush. He helped me acquire my first full time job for
Moscow Implement, selling parts. That was my first serious infusion into the
ag community. After that I went to collage at LCSC. Out of that went to work
for State Tractor with Gary Crabtree. Not much real ag stuff going on there,
but some( and it gets him in the story). Durring the 80’s I had and auto
repair shop in town. Some of the customers were farmers as well as freands.
They always need some kind of help, particularly at harvest time.
In the 90’s I worked four years at Columbia Tractor.
I can repair and operate just about anything you can think of and have
worked for a handful of farmers in a variety of different capacities. Over
the years I’ve had plenty of experience with the ag community. They have one
hell of a hard row to hoe and I have seen it up close and personal.
My present volunteer activities include native plant regeneration with the
Palouse Prairie Foundation.
With that group I sometimes volunteer work to do preservation work with the
local endangered native plant community ( and the Great White Worm). There
are farmers that attend that group. We talk about dirt...
There is a member in the group named Maynard Fosberg who is a retired soil
scientist. I’m confident that he has the kind of authority your looking for.
As far as my ears and eyes can tell, soil conditions are continuing to
decline and if you want a good description of soil health in just about any
region of the world, then I’m certain he’d love to bend your ear a bit, if
you were to look for him.
Almost all farms are *Not* operating their land sustainably and its not
entirely their fault. The soils are completely addicted to chemicals and the
crops to gene pool juggling.
If you want a good definition and read that reflects my idea of just what
constitutes sustainability, I recommend reading the works of Bill Mollison.
Speaking of Coyote stories, the Nez Perce Nation has been here a bit longer
than any settlers family you can find.
I accept their ideas about how the land (and the rivers) should sustainably
treated.
Maybe will see you at the spring Pow Wow. We can talk about the land and
supporting property rights.
Dave
>
>Dave said "The ag community needs to break its monoculturalistic thinking
>and adopt sustainability principles."
>Ummmm, Dave, many of the farms in this area have been in production and
>passed down through 3 generations at this point. That's about 100 years of
>sustainability. There is a saying that farmers have, "Take care of the
>ground and it'll take care of you."
>Please name any other family owned businesses that have been here that
>long.
>And please tell us how much time you've spent on a farm or other ag
>operation.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: vision2020-bounces at moscow.com
>[mailto:vision2020-bounces at moscow.com]On Behalf Of g. crabtree
> Sent: Monday, January 15, 2007 10:54 AM
> To: Craine Kit; Vision 2020
> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Moscow's Growth Policies Don't Apply
>toWhitman(ordothey?)
>
>
> What would be the incentive for the property owner to allow his land to
>be
>tied up in this manner? How is a number/value arrived at for the
>development
>rights? Can you provide an example of where this has been "successful
>elsewhere" along with the details? I can see how this would work for
>farmers/land owners who really do not want to let their land go but for a
>owner who might be looking to cash out, I do not see what incentive he
>would
>have to participate. Or is this a program where saying no thank you is not
>an option?
>
> g
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Craine Kit" <kcraine at verizon.net>
> To: "Vision 2020" <vision2020 at moscow.com>
> Sent: Monday, January 15, 2007 9:26 AM
> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Moscow's Growth Policies Don't Apply to
>Whitman(ordothey?)
>
>
> > Given that the Palouse has very valuable agricultural soils and that
> > once these are disturbed they lose productivity, perhaps we should
> > protect them by using an approach that has be successful elsewhere:
> > as a community, we buy the development rights. In other words, we pay
> > farmers to keep their land in production. If, at some point in time,
> > the community as a whole prefers development over agriculture, we can
> > sell the rights and perhaps make a profit on our investment.
> >
> > Kit Craine
> >
> > On Jan 13, 2007, at 1:42 PM, g. crabtree wrote:
> >
> >> Dave says:
> >>
> >> "they (Latah/Whitman co. farmers, presumably) are using their land
> >> (as) a lever to maximize profits as they know best, trying to
> >> protect their futures."
> >> and
> >>
> >> "The ag community needs to break its monoculturalistic thinking and
> >> adopt
> >> sustainability principles."
> >>
> >> Who are we to tell the owners of "the most valuable resource in the
> >> area", the palouse soil, how and what to think? As land owners I am
> >> certain that they have given the matter more than a little bit of
> >> thought. If what you say is truly what you believe, would I be
> >> correct in assuming that you are acquiring farm land as it becomes
> >> available and putting your "sustainability principles" into
> >> practice? If not, why? If you are, could you please share with us
> >> the details of your experience and profitability?
> >>
> >> g
> >>
> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> From: "david sarff" <davesway at hotmail.com>
> >> To: <mattd2107 at hotmail.com>; <thansen at moscow.com>;
> >> <vision2020 at moscow.com>
> >> Sent: Saturday, January 13, 2007 11:36 AM
> >> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Moscow's Growth Policies Don't Apply to
> >> Whitman(ordothey?)
> >>
> >> > Matt et.al
> >> >
> >> > I'm not so sure that it's a Whitman County vs. City of Moscow
> >> fight; It's a
> >> > constituency struggle. What we have are some city folks who want
> >> to live in
> >> > one kind of surroundings and they are surrounded by a pack of
> >> farmers who
> >> > are tired of being pressured and wrestling with economic
> >> realities. Looking
> >> > out for themselves, they are using their land a lever to maximize
> >> profits as
> >> > they know best, trying to protect their futures.
> >> > What I would prefer is that city retain its agricultural
> >> foundations and
> >> > integrate them more fully back into the community. Put the farmer
> >> square in
> >> > the middle of the community. There are some small signs in town,
> >> that this
> >> > is trying to happen.
> >> > The ag community needs to break its monoculturalistic thinking
> >> and adopt
> >> > sustainability principles.
> >> > The Palouse soil is the most valuable natural resource in the
> >> area, if we
> >> > don't work to utilize and enhance this medium, we will all loose.
> >> > Don't pave Paradise.
> >> > Dave
> >> >
> >> >>Tom,
> >> >>
> >> >>What a great post. I only hope more of these come out in the near
> >> future.
> >> >>
> >> >>And cheers to Whitman for not allowing Moscow to bully them with
> >> silly
> >> >>excuses and agendas.
> >> >>
> >> >>Matt
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> >From: "Tom Hansen" <thansen at moscow.com>
> >> >> >To: "Vision 2020" <vision2020 at moscow.com>
> >> >> >Subject: [Vision2020] Moscow's Growth Policies Don't Apply to
> >> Whitman (or
> >> >> >dothey?)
> >> >> >Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2007 06:47:52 -0800
> >> >> >
> >> >> > >From today's (January 13, 2007) Moscow-Pullman Daily News -
> >> >> >
> >> >> >------------------------------------------------------------
> >> >> >
> >> >> >OUR VIEW: Moscow's growth policies don't apply to Whitman
> >> >> >
> >> >> >By Murf Raquet, for the editorial board
> >> >> >
> >> >> >Saturday, January 13, 2007 - Page Updated at 10:20:50 PM
> >> >> >
> >> >> >Political boundaries on the Palouse are clear.Moscow city
> >> limits extend
> >> >>to
> >> >> >the Washington state border as does the eastern edge of Whitman
> >> County.
> >> >> >
> >> >> >Both entities have their own regulations to follow when it
> >> comes to
> >> >> >development. Often those rules are similar in that they require
> >> >>development
> >> >> >plans to undergo sufficient public scrutiny to protect the
> >> environment.
> >> >> >
> >> >> >It's time for Moscow to recognize that Whitman County is
>perfectly
> >> >>capable
> >> >> >of determining how and what acreage is developed within it
> >> borders.
> >> >> >
> >> >> >Whitman County has all but cleared the way for the Hawkins
> >> Companies of
> >> >> >Boise to develop a 600,000-square-foot retail center along the
> >> >> >Pullman-Moscow corridor. The center would abut the state line
> >> and Moscow.
> >> >> >
> >> >> >Moscow registered concerns about the effects the development
> >> would have
> >> >>on
> >> >> >the aquifers, wetlands and traffic.
> >> >> >
> >> >> >Those concerns and others were addressed through the Washington
> >> State
> >> >> >Environmental Policy Act, an environmental assessment procedure
> >> that is
> >> >>one
> >> >> >of the more stringent in the nation.
> >> >> >
> >> >> >Whitman County had no legal obligation to consider Moscow's
> >> concerns but
> >> >> >did
> >> >> >so because of Moscow's proximity to the development.
> >> >> >
> >> >> >That was the right thing to do.
> >> >> >
> >> >> >"Moscow is our very close neighbor," said Whitman County
> >> Prosecutor Denis
> >> >> >Tracy. "We have taken extensive steps to take their concerns into
> >> >> >consideration. If they have any concerns that are not part of
> >> the SEPA
> >> >> >review the county hopes Moscow will pick up the phone and we
> >> can talk
> >> >>about
> >> >> >their concerns."
> >> >> >
> >> >> >Dialogue is a fine way to resolve problems.
> >> >> >
> >> >> >Now, Moscow must accept the SEPA conclusion and not drag the
>issue
> >> >>through
> >> >> >the court system.
> >> >> >
> >> >> >Moscow has every right to determine growth policy within its
> >> city limits.
> >> >> >
> >> >> >We hope the city can restrain itself in the future if the urge
> >> to impose
> >> >> >its
> >> >> >standards elsewhere pops up again.
> >> >> >
> >> >> >------------------------------------------------------------
> >> >> >
> >> >> >My concern is not with what facilities are built on
> >> Washington's side of
> >> >> >the
> >> >> >line, but what resources are used by those resources. As has
>been
> >> >> >discussed
> >> >> >here on Vision 2020, Moscow and Pullman share a common
> >> aquifer. The
> >> >> >primary
> >> >> >concern, in relation to the aquifer and facilities built on
> >> either side
> >> >>of
> >> >> >the state line, is the "right to use" of that aquifer.
> >> >> >
> >> >> >As discussed by guests Rocky Barker, environmental reporter
>(Idaho
> >> >> >Statesman), State Senator Charles Coiner (R-Twin Falls), and
>Prof.
> >> >>Barbara
> >> >> >Cosens, University of Idaho Law School, when "Mary in Moscow"
> >> called in
> >> >>on
> >> >> >Thursday's Idaho Public Television's "Dialogue" program, this
> >> decision
> >> >>may
> >> >> >not be made locally, but by the US Supreme Court.
> >> >> >
> >> >> >http://www.tomandrodna.com/Stuff/Dialogue_011107_01.mp3
> >> >> >
> >> >> >Thoughts?
> >> >> >
> >> >> >Tom Hansen
> >> >> >Moscow, Idaho
> >> >> >
> >> >> >"The Pessimist complains about the wind, the Optimist expects
> >> it to
> >> >>change
> >> >> >and the REALIST adjusts his sails."
> >> >> >
> >> >> >- Unknown
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> >=======================================================
> >> >> > List services made available by First Step Internet,
> >> >> > serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
> >> >> > http://www.fsr.net
> >> >> > mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
> >> >> >=======================================================
> >> >>
> >> >>_________________________________________________________________
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> >> the scoop.
> >> >>http://tv.msn.com/tv/globes2007/?icid=nctagline2
> >> >>
> >> >>=======================================================
> >> >> List services made available by First Step Internet,
> >> >> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
> >> >> http://www.fsr.net
> >> >> mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
> >> >>=======================================================
> >> >
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> >>
> >> > =======================================================
> >> > List services made available by First Step Internet,
> >> > serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
> >> > http://www.fsr.net
> >> > mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
> >> > =======================================================
> >> =======================================================
> >> List services made available by First Step Internet,
> >> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
> >> http://www.fsr.net
> >> mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
> >> =======================================================
> >
> > =======================================================
> > List services made available by First Step Internet,
> > serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
> > http://www.fsr.net
> > mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
> > =======================================================
> >
>
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> mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
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