[Vision2020] Will the People of Moscow -- and the City--Listen? Sidewalks m

[Craine Kit]

Is there an attorney or someone out there who correct me if I'm wrong  
on this?

There is only one area which is a dedicated public right-of-way. Most  
of the center portion is reserved for vehicular traffic. Going  
towards the outer edge there may or may not be a tree lawn then the  
sidewalk, which often marks the boundary. This is not public property  
like a park; it is an area where the public is free to cross private  
property. The right-of-way is dedicated when land is developed. The  
property owners pay to build both the streets and the sidewalks.

The difference is in what is allowed to traverse the areas and who is  
responsible for maintaining them. For instance, motorized vehicles  
generally are not allowed to use sidewalks. In some places,  
pedestrians are not allowed in the street. In most places (including  
Idaho), the City is responsible for maintaining the streets while  
property owners are responsible for the sidewalks and tree lawn.

Whether snow removal responsibility falls on the property owner or  
the City, the property owners pay for it--either in labor or taxes.  
It takes me a least 25 minutes to clear my driveway. The sidewalk is  
a sneeze on top of that. Personally, I am not fond of the idea that  
on top of shovelling my driveway, I would be forced to pay taxes to  
clear a sidewalk that belongs to someone who doesn't bother to do  
theirs-- particularly if it is a rental.

Kit

On Feb 27, 2007, at 1:06 PM, david sarff wrote:

>
>
> Yup, I agree Kit.
> If as Mike indicated, the majority of the problem is rental  
> properties leaving a common laps in servicing the walks. Perhaps  
> the all registered business/rentals could be asked to enter a  
> service pool or cooperative and other types of property owners  
> could also join but not be required.
>
> I do want to know if the two rights of way are equal. There may be  
> a difference. If they are the same. I think that is something to  
> examine.
>
> Dave
>
>
>>
>> I don't know what (or if) there is a legal difference between the two
>> right-of-ways. To me, it is a matter of efficiency. I can easily do
>> my part to keep the sidewalks safe by shoveling mine (less than a
>> minute, no lifting required). Other than having melt-water flow onto
>> my space, it doesn't make any difference to my efforts if my next-
>> door neighbor doesn't do theirs.
>>
>> It is a far different story with the street. Speaking from decades of
>> experience, it is hard, heavy labor to shovel snow off the road. If I
>> clear half-way across the street in front of my house and the
>> neighbors next door or across the street don't, vehicles knock snow
>> back into the space I've worked so hard on. Furthermore, having a
>> clear patch here and there does nothing to help traffic--it just
>> creates a bigger mess.
>>
>> To me, it is more efficient to have the City (which is the body that
>> manages our community) buy the necessary machines and do the entire
>> street at once while individuals take care of the bit of sidewalk in
>> front of their residence.
>>
>> Kit Craine
>>
>> On Feb 25, 2007, at 9:41 PM, david sarff wrote:
>>
>> >
>> > Hi Sunil, Linda...
>> > Yes, just a little more push is the practical thing to do and would
>> > go a
>> > long way. I agree that it is the property owners duty.
>> > Still, I wonder what the legal difference is between the two right
>> > of ways.
>> > Streets and sidewalks. If they are the same. That strikes me as
>> > unequal
>> > balance.
>> > Dave
>> >
>> >> Linda,
>> >>
>> >> As a defense attorney, it usually goes against my nature to  
>> encourage
>> >> enforcement or prosecution, but I would like to see some attention
>> >> given to
>> >> this issue by the Moscow Police Department.
>> >>
>> >> If half the attention were given to this as is to prosecuting
>> >> minors in
>> >> possession or consuming alcohol, our sidewalks would be far
>> >> safer.  I think
>> >> icy sidewalks pose a regular hazard to Moscow's residents and
>> >> visitors.  I
>> >> certainly commend you for your attention to your own sidewalks,
>> >> something
>> >> I've often seen and appreciated on my fall and winter strolls to
>> >> the Corner
>> >> Club to watch Steeler games...
>> >>
>> >> And we wouldn't necessarily have to prosecute folks; I think most
>> >> people
>> >> would respond to warnings about their sidewalks.
>> >>
>> >> Sunil
>> >>
>> >>
>> : Sat, 24 Feb 2007 12:58:40 -0800
>> >>>
>> >>> Dear Saundra and Visionaries,
>> >>>
>> >>> Since the letter Lois wrote to me arrived at my e-mail in-box at
>> >>> 10:03
>> >>> A.M.,
>> >>> I was in my office Friday morning and replied at 11:40 A.M..  I'm
>> >>> sure
>> >> the
>> >>> editorial page of the Friday Daily News had probably been put to
>> >>> bed the
>> >>> day
>> >>> before. I think the agendas showing this as a topic of
>> >>> consideration for
>> >>> Monday's 4:30 P.M. Public Works/Finance Committee meeting came
>> >>> out around
>> >>> 4:30 P.M. Friday afternoon. (I will be in Missoula on business
>> >>> Monday but
>> >>> John Weber will chair the meeting and you and everyone are
>> >>> welcome to be
>> >>> part of this discussion!) I go into all of this to try to
>> >>> illustrate that
>> >>> one city council member is looking to welcome citizen comment on
>> >>> this
>> >>> vexing
>> >>> matter and believes that we are talking about it improving the
>> >>> system.
>> >>>
>> >>> The basic reality is that, outside of serious criminal laws, most
>> >>> of our
>> >>> local and state laws are enforced on a complaint-basis. And even
>> >>> some of
>> >>> those criminal laws on the books are not the subject of regular
>> >> enforcement
>> >>> actions by the contabulary. Lewd cohabitation (living with  
>> someone
>> >> without
>> >>> benefit of clergy) used to be on the statute books in Idaho and
>> >>> perhaps
>> >>> still is, though I could not find it is a quick search of the
>> >>> Moroccan
>> >>> bound
>> >>> volumes in my office. I do not recall any Latah County prosecutor
>> >>> in my
>> >> 34
>> >>> years of life in Idaho prosecuting someone under that statute...
>> >>>
>> >>> Saundra, see my response to Lois below and try to come to the PWF
>> >> Committee
>> >>> meeting Monday afternoon or tune in on cable if you have it. The
>> >>> Mayor
>> >> and
>> >>> Council are concerned about this and realize how dangerous
>> >>> sidewalks can
>> >>> cause terrible consequences for anyone but especially for those
>> >>> already
>> >>> with
>> >>> infirmaties. I am a prime example of one who is concerned about
>> >>> this, "up
>> >>> close and personal!" I try to have my walks maintained during the
>> >>> winter
>> >>> and
>> >>> deeply appreciate those who do.
>> >>>
>> >>> We are all REALLY trying to do the right thing by the citizens of
>> >> Moscow...
>> >>>
>> >>> All the best to you, Saundra, and to the collected Visionaries,
>> >>>
>> >>> Linda Pall
>> >>> Moscow City Council
>> >>>
>> >>> BELOW IS LINDA'S RESPONSE (11:40 AM, 2/23/07) TO LOIS BLACKBURN'S
>> >>> E-MAIL
>> >>> (10:03 AM, 2/23/07):
>> >>>
>> >>> Dear Lois (I'm going informal no matter what here...),
>> >>>
>> >>> Thanks for your e-mail. Please be advised that I have asked  
>> that the
>> >>> discussion of enforcement of our existing city ordinances and  
>> other
>> >> citizen
>> >>> and council ideas regrading this truly important matter be on the
>> >>> Public
>> >>> Works/Finance Agenda on the Monday, February 26, meeting at 4:30
>> >>> P.M. in
>> >>> the
>> >>> COuncil Chambers. Kit Craine has developed a proposal that is  
>> more
>> >>> assertive
>> >>> than the city's current enforcement stance which relies  
>> primarily on
>> >>> citizen-initiated complaints.
>> >>>
>> >>> We should certainly address the question of winter access to our
>> >>> streets
>> >>> and
>> >>> sidewalks for people with disabilities as well as those without.
>> >>>
>> >>> We welcome your comments and proposals for discussion Monday  
>> (and by
>> >> letter
>> >>> or any other means you would like to involve us!). As you are  
>> aware,
>> >> there
>> >>> is a lot of competition for city funds and our efforts often  
>> have to
>> >>> balance
>> >>> various interests. I hope to see a balanced, affordable approach
>> >> proposed.
>> >>>
>> >>> I am unable to attend Monday's meeting (and the one on March 12)
>> >>> because
>> >> of
>> >>> business commitments out of town.
>> >>>
>> >>> I think you will find Kit's proposal very dehlpful to the
>> >>> discussion.
>> >>> Thanks
>> >>> for ewriting.
>> >>>
>> >>> Sincerely,
>> >>>
>> >>
>>
>
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