[Vision2020] vision 2020 proposal

[debismith at moscow.com]

Thank you, Wayne. That is exactly the case!
Debi R-S


> Debbie writes:
> 
> "I don't understand why you all don't form your OWN anti-christ
> church/anti-doug wilson/anti-whatever LISTSERV and leave this one to its
> origins of discussing Moscow issues."
> 
> Some people on this forum see some of the actions of Christ Church as a
> Moscow issues:  zoning, sexual abuse, spousal abuse, racism, sexism,
> homophobia, theocracy, alleged evading of capital gains taxes,
> misleading or lying at public hearings, effects of on recruitment both
> academic and athletic at the UI, organizational dishonesty, and cultism.
>  Some people on this forum also see it as a county-wide forum, not just
> the exclusive domain of certain Moscow users.  
> 
> Some older people on this forum, whose opinion apparently really doesn't
> count, still remember learning about "Eternal vigilance is the price of
> liberty."  Some old people on the forum see those that ignore this bit
> of Jeffersonian wisdom as enablers.  For these ignorers/enablers, if the
> Sitler and Wight sexual predator cases, the ways they were handled, and
> their nuances and ramifications for the community did not act as a
> wake-up call, then probably nothing will.
> 
> Some old people have not only read about, but have observed firsthand
> the effects of cultism on individuals and communities in other places,
> hence are more concerned.  Unlike Misters Decker, Becker, et al, some
> people believe that the some of the outré belief-inspired actions of
> the cult have damaged and continue to damage the community.  Some are
> concerned about the very active recruitment to the community of others
> by Christ Church who share their outré beliefs and would perpetuate
> the damaging actions by Christ Church which are promulgated by such
> beliefs.
> 
> For example, a letter to the Daily News detailing the cruel and harmful
> effects on their child by Douglas Wilson's direct and indirect actions
> with respect to gays is a chilling reminder of the effects of
> homophobia.  [I can repost this letter should some of you be unfamiliar
> with it.]  Some people find these kinds of discriminatory/hate driven
> actions disturbing, wish to live in a community where this kind of
> discrimination is greatly diminished, and therefore wish to promote a
> community discussion on this and related issues.  The same can said be
> for the issues raised by the recent reposting of the Logos School's
> complete original announcement of the banning of women from serving on
> the school's board of directors.  The same can be said of Wilson's
> delusional views on antebellum slavery.  
> 
> Wilson has a complete right to express and to argue for his views,
> however badly they reflect on the community in the outside world.  What
> would reflect even worse for Moscow, in my opinion, is if such views
> were not rigorously and openly opposed.
> 
> Some people do not think it proper to discuss others' religious beliefs.
>  The fact is that strongly held religious beliefs prompt actions which
> have community impact, sometimes these impacts are toxic and harmful to
> the general community health, welfare, and pursuit of happiness.  To
> these people who think religious discussions are not proper, I urge you
> to read about the motives of the first European colonists in our
> country, and whose European experiences gave birth to our Constitution.
> 
> 
> Debbie further writes:
> 
> "Your Anti-Christ Church rhetoric and hate has suffocated an otherwise
> helpful, informative, interesting, lively forum." 
> 
> Perhaps I am too old to see it otherwise, but Vision 2020 is still a
> helpful, informative, interesting, lively forum.  There have been many
> local issues discussed.  I know for a fact that some of the opinions
> offered here have influenced officials of both city and county
> government as well as some other organizations.
> 
> There is no doubt a lot of writing about Christ Church and related
> issues on V 2020 for reasons given above.  There are also a lot of
> writings about things that are not purely city issues; some of these
> issues are national and global in size, but still in the long run the
> subjects of these issues will affect Moscow.
> 
> 
> Repeating what Debbie wrote:
> 
> "I don't understand why you all don't form your OWN anti-christ
> church/anti-doug wilson/anti-whatever LISTSERV and leave this one to its
> origins of discussing Moscow issues."
> 
> I hope that even critics of those that write about Christ Church will
> find the phrase "your OWN" offensive.  Is there something that we do not
> know?  Are there some individuals who "own" Vision 2020, and therefore
> have the right to tell those of us who are not among the "owners" what
> the "real" Moscow issues are, and consequently what to write about?
> 
> As has been mentioned many times before, once an unmoderated public
> forum has been opened, only the very naive would expect it to be
> confined topic-wise or rhetoric-wise.  Public discourse bears fruit, in
> part, because of this wide diversity.  As a member of a number of
> forums, I find that Vision 2020 is superior in at least two ways:  It
> has very little problems with spam, and it has encouraged a great
> diversity of opinions on issues and of styles of communication, some of
> which have promoted constructive change in the community.  
> 
> With respect to the diversity of topics and rhetoric, some people are
> not comfortable with this degree of freedom of expression.  For such
> people, the one or two seconds it takes to use the delete key remains a
> reasonable option and does not deter the rest of us from reading (or
> not) what others freely choose to post.  For others that are exasperated
> by or otherwise unable to handle the fruits of freedom of expression,
> there are ways of blocking a particular poster.  I have only blocked one
> person.  It is not that I wish to exclude his opinions, but I am tired
> of getting his offline poison pen notes.  Blocking him provides an
> option for now to pursuing criminal complaints and/or civil actions.
> 
> If it is permitted, I'll tell you what bothers me about certain posts: 
> Some posters do not believe that it necessary to support with
> information and argument the opinions they express.  Of course they are
> free to do this, but it does not reflect well on themselves nor the
> positions they espouse.
> 
> 
> Wayne A. Fox
> 1009 Karen Lane
> PO Box 9421
> Moscow, ID  83843
> 
> (208) 882-7975
> waf at moscow.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Debbie Gray" <graylex at yahoo.com>
> To: "kerry becker" <kerrybecker6924 at hotmail.com>
> Cc: <vision2020 at moscow.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, February 20, 2007 8:11 PM
> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] vision 2020 proposal
> 
> 
> > Exactly. Christ Church isn't alone it its
> > interpretations of the bible. I grew up in a
> > fundamentalist bible-thumping born-again household and
> > heard this same stuff. I understand that people oppose
> > these ideas and find them harmful. I don't understand
> > the hate focused on one group. I don't agree with most
> > of the things they teach but I don't agree with the
> > catholics (also anti-gay, anti-abortion, etc etc), the
> > LDS Church (also wanting to keep women in their
> > 'traditional role'); the Lutherans, the Methodists and
> > any other flavor of "christian" belief. Where is the
> > outcry that women can't be Elders in the LDS Church?
> > Where's our female pope? Look at those Catholic
> > priests molesting children left and right!
> > 
> > I don't understand why you all don't form your OWN
> > anti-christ church/anti-doug wilson/anti-whatever
> > LISTSERV and leave this one to its origins of
> > discussing Moscow issues. Your Anti-Christ Church
> > rhetoric and hate has suffocated an otherwise helpful,
> > infornative, interesting, lively forum. Does anyone
> > remember PRE-Tom Hansen/Jackie Woolf, etc? I do!!!
> > 
> > Debbie Gray
> > p.s. Tom, I am at home on my home computer (purchased
> > with wages from the UI), do you want my home address?
> > Phone #? I hope you like my IP address... i like how
> > the numbers make such a random pattern. Do i need to
> > give a permission slip from my spouse or kids that I
> > am not misusing my personal time? 
> > 
> > --- kerry becker <kerrybecker6924 at hotmail.com> wrote:
> > 
> > 
> > ---------------------------------
> > 
> > The irony is that this stuff happens in many churches.
> > You know what kind of heyday we could have if we had
> > a mole like J Ford in the mormon church?  Think about
> > it.  Now there's some good stuff.  Maybe we could
> > start an "Outing Churches in Moscow" blog?  : )
> > 
> > But seriously, there really ISNT a fine line between
> > "dialogue" and "obsession."  It's clear as day which
> > is which and I believe that's what most are trying to
> > eliminate in these postings.
> > 
> > Reminds me of a quote;
> > 
> > "Great minds talk about great ideas; average minds
> > talk about average ideas; small minds talk about other
> > people.--Anonymous 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> >
> 
_________________________________________________________________________>
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> > Have a HUGE year through Yahoo! Small Business.
> > http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/domains/?p=BESTDEAL
> > 
> >
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