[Vision2020] Wilson's Excuses
Art Deco
deco at moscow.com
Fri Feb 16 16:30:22 PST 2007
Below is what JFord was referring to. Or have you forgotten your written intention to get back to the list after your investigation of this gem?
W.
http://www.credenda.org/old/issues/vol3/magi3-9.htm
Magistralis
Your Eye Shall Not Pity
Greg Dickison
he civil magistrate is the minister of God to execute wrath on the wrongdoer (Rom. 13:4). God has not left his civil minister without guidance on how to exercise his office. The Scriptures set forth clear standards of judgment for many offenses. Capital crimes, for example, include premeditated killing (murder), kidnapping, sorcery, bestiality, adultery, homosexuality, and cursing one's parents (Ex. 21:14; 21:16; 22:18; 22:19; Lev. 20:10; 20:13; Ex. 21:17).
In contemporary American jurisprudence, none of these offenses is punishable by death, with the occasional exception of murder. The magistrates have dispensed with God's standards of justice. Some Christians believe this is an improvement. They would be horrified to think that the "harsh" penalties of the law should still be applied. Sometimes this is the result of the mistaken belief that the Old Testament has no further application after the advent of Christ. This is an exegetical problem. Too often, it is the result of a sinful view of the criminal. This sin is called pity.
Pity is a compassionate and sympathetic response to another's distress. It manifests itself by some action deemed to be beneficent to the one who is the object of the pity. It is characterized by the thought, "There, but for the grace of God, go I." So what is wrong with that? Why is pity a sin?
First, pity is not always a sin. But neither is it always good. The Bible teaches that the moral character of pity depends on the context in which it is exercised.
He who has pity on the poor lends to the Lord, and He will pay back what he has given (Prov. 19:17). Pity toward the poor is good. David was condemned by God when he did not take pity on Uriah, a poor man (2 Sam. 12:110). David sought pity when he was under the reproach of his enemies (Ps. 69:20). It would have been a comfort to him in his adversity. If God had not taken pity on His people, we would all be lost in our sins (Is. 63:9).
There are also examples of God's refusal to have pity, as when Jerusalem defiled His sanctuary (Ez. 5:11). Likewise, God included in the law specific prohibitions against the exercise of pity in meting out punishment.
If your brother, the son of your mother, your son or your daughter, the wife of your bosom, or your friend who is as your own soul, secretly entices you, saying, "Let us go and serve other gods,". . . you shall not consent to him or listen to him, nor shall your eye pity him, nor shall you spare him or conceal him; but you shall surely kill him . . . (Deut. 13:69).
But if anyone hates his neighbor, lies in wait for him, rises against him and strikes him mortally, so that he dies, and he flees to one of these cities, then the elders of his city shall send and bring him from there, and deliver him over to the hand of the avenger of blood, that he may die. Your eye shall not pity him, but you shall put away the guilt of innocent blood from Israel, that it may go well with you (Deut. 19:1113).
If a false witness rises against any man to testify against him of wrongdoing, then both men in the controversy shall stand before the Lord, before the priests and the judges who serve in those days. And the judges shall make diligent inquiry, and indeed, if the witness is a false witness, who has testified falsely against his brother, then you shall do to him as he thought to have done to his brother, so you shall put away the evil person from among you. Your eye shall not pity . . . (Deut. 19.1619, 21).
If two men fight together, and the wife of one draws near to rescue her husband from the hand of the one attacking him, and puts out the hand and seizes him by the genitals, then you shall cut off her hand; your eye shall not pity her (Deut. 25:11, 12).
The tendency of modern American law is to look at whether the particular criminal deserves the penalty involved. Witnesses are brought in (usually the defendant's mother) to say that Johnny is really a good boy who just got in with the wrong crowd and deserves another chance. Or the judge considers whether the accused is sorry for what he did. Those who side with the victim can go to the other extreme; the prosecutor is allowed to bring in witnesses to testify to what a great guy the victim was, or to the impact of the crime on the victim's family. Justice becomes a contest to see which side can generate the most pity.
God commands the judge to evaluate the crime rather than the criminal. If the crime is one for which God requires death, then death must be the punishment. Your eye shall not pity. Neither is the repentance of the accused relevant to the imposition of the sentence. When it was discovered that Achan had kept some of the spoil of Jericho, Joshua beseeched him to repent. And Achan answered Joshua and said, `Indeed, I have sinned against the Lord God of Israel, and this is what I have done . . . (Josh. 7:19-20). After Achan confessed, he was still stoned to death.
Thus, the Bible teaches that pity is not an option where God has decided the matter. The magistrate, God's minister, is to faithfully execute justice according to God's standard, not man's.
What the Bible does not teach is that the preaching of the gospel and repentance have no place on death row. Indeed, it is hard to imagine a place where there is a more immediate need of grace, and a presentation of the gospel should be the first response of Christians to those who are condemned. But condemnation still must come if we are to be obedient to God's Word. We must respond to the wrongdoer biblically in both judgment and grace.
This means that we must return to an obedience which confines pity within the bounds which God has established for us.
----- Original Message -----
From: g. crabtree
To: J Ford ; vision2020 at moscow.com
Sent: Friday, February 16, 2007 3:46 PM
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Wilson's Excuses
"He'll kill a child that disobeys his parent,
he'll kill any gay just because they are gay"
Get a grip on yourself. This is over the top, even by the standards that you have previously set. The term slander gets tossed about pretty freely on this forum (even when they really mean libel) but there is no question that you are crossing a line with these kinds of ridicules and baseless comments. Please just stop.
g
----- Original Message -----
From: "J Ford" <privatejf32 at hotmail.com>
To: <vision2020 at moscow.com>
Sent: Friday, February 16, 2007 1:46 PM
Subject: [Vision2020] Wilson's Excuses
> During that same "talk" Wilson said he has "welcomed back into the church
> fold, those young men". What does this mean? The children victims and
> their families, of Sitler and Jamin get to look at his ugly mug no matter
> what function, or service, or gathering is going on. Wilson REFUSED to
> admit or confirm that Sitler or Jamin would ever be banned from any of the
> above, only that they would be monitored. And remember that just because
> Jamin had his charge reduced (ostensibly because the victim had "consented"
> to Jamin's sexual attention) does not mean that what he did was any less
> severe an act of child molestation than what Sitler did to his victims.
> Court technicalities do NOT negate the seriousness of the crime, just the
> perception of the legal system that they are "winning" a case. And as far
> as "Let's Make A Deal Monty" Thompson is concerned, that's better looking
> than a check in the "maybe could win" column any day. He did not want to
> take the chance of the child being up on the stand and explaining to the
> jury that she wanted and invited Jamin's attentions as he felt that would
> hurt his case. The only thing it hurts is Jamin and the child - WHO KNEW
> THAT CHILD WAS NOT CAPABLE OF MAKING THAT KIND OF RATIONAL DECISION, but he
> went with his sickly-man instincts and did it anyway - repeatedly over a
> very long period of time. There is NO distinction between Sitler hurting
> 100(+) victims and Jamin hurting one or two victims...once done, it can not
> be undone and the damage is far reaching into that child's life and future.
> Yet, Wilson will allow both of these creeps back into the church, back into
> the fold, back into the activities (do not be fooled by his saying "they
> will monitored" - just how is Wilson going to do that unless those creeps
> are chained to someone else?) If I were a parent of a child victim of
> either of these molesters, and a member of that church, I would be doing
> some serious thinking about continuing the membership at such a church as
> well as the continued "non-pastorship" of Doug Wilson. This is a man who
> has receive ZERO training in pastoring as well ZERO training or education in
> the treatment of child molesters.
>
> And let there be NO doubt about it - Sitler and Jamin are CHILD
> MOLESTERS!!!! And they will repeat their crimes because they simply do not
> wish to change. They may calm down, may even go dormant for a while - but
> they WILL strike again. Anyone willing to sacrifice their child for the
> ego-growth of their non-pastor? Every time Sitler and Jamin are anywhere
> near a child, that is EXACTLY what you are doing.
>
> Oh and lets not forget the lame-assed reasoning of Wilson that he has
> received their confessions and has forgiven them their crimes, because
> that's the business he is in. He'll kill a child that disobeys his parent,
> he'll kill any gay just because they are gay, he'll call people he does not
> even know his enemy just because they don't agree with him - but Sitler and
> Jamin, he'll forgive for ruining the lives of innocents! Like he's in any
> position to do either!
>
> How about the children victims of those two? Both men are supposed to be
> paying restitution to those victims. Court papers show both are BEHIND in
> doing that. Of course, the CC will hire Sitler when he gets out just as
> they have done with Jamin. How else are they going to make the money
> necessary to pay this debt? Well, and now Jamin has two moving violations
> he has to pay for. TWO, in less than two weeks out of jail, Jamin gets into
> trouble - Great start, Jamin. Can't even keep you nose clean long enough to
> travel safely on the very streets children live on!
>
> This is the type of monitoring Wilson will be doing? Parents - KNOW WHERE
> YOUR KIDS ARE AND WHO THEY ARE TALKING TO!
>
>
> J :]
>
>
>
>
>
>>From: "Art Deco" <deco at moscow.com>
>>To: "Vision 2020" <vision2020 at moscow.com>
>>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Gooooooooood Morning, Moscow, Idaho
>>Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2007 09:47:28 -0800
>>
>>Tom quotes Cultmaster Douglas Wilson:
>>
>>"I'll just speak for our church, in Christ Church [sic]. If I found out
>>that a member of our church or a church officer was lying to non-believers
>>in the community, as a way to get by or protect themself [sic] or protect
>>his reputation, yes, he'd be disciplined."
>>
>>This is a very curious statement by the Cultmaster. Even if it is
>>believed, as improbable as it is given clear and cogent evidence to the
>>contrary, there are some revealing omissions of several different
>>categories of lying that are covered by Wilson's statement.
>>
>>Would someone be disciplined if they lied to:
>>
>>1. Protect the Wilson & Family's Christless Cult & Cash Machine -- (You
>>must tolerate us since we do not tolerate anyone else)?
>>2. Protect Doug Wilson?
>>3. Protect any of the upper echelon of the cult or their wives/children?
>>4. Obstruct justice by reporting all crimes, no matter how serious, and
>>especially crimes of child sexual abuse, through the cult ward system, and
>>thus to the Cultmaster, instead of and/or before reporting them to the
>>proper law enforcement agencies?
>>5. Does the claim of imposed discipline apply to the lies of the
>>Cultmaster himself? Who would discipline him? The gutless elders, almost
>>all of whom are economically dependent on Cultmaster Wilson? Yeah, right.
>>Etc, etc.
>>
>>None of these above acts of falsehood are included in the list of
>>impermissible lies upon closer examination of Wilson's artful statement.
>>
>>And what does "disciplined" mean?
>>
>>
>>For the innocents: This statement and the dog and pony shoe from which it
>>was quoted is another example of how a skilled confidence trickster
>>operates. A statement is made that seems very open-faced and sincere to
>>those with relaxed, undeveloped, or rusty crap-detectors. But after closer
>>examination, the statement is found to be not so open-faced, but deceptive,
>>and certainly not believable.
>>
>>Other example of this kind of confidence trickster's dishonesty was
>>Wilson's statement that sexual predator/serial child sexual abuser and New
>>Saint Andrews student James Sitler was not a member of Christ Church. In
>>some technical way, despite being away from his home church in Colville,
>>Washington, for a long period, it was claimed he was a member there.
>>However, here's the truth: Sitler attended Christ Church services the
>>entire time he was here attending New Saint Andrews, a Christ Church
>>adjunct. Sitler was also boarded by a Christ Church member family whom he
>>rewarded for their graciousness by sexually debauching their young children
>>multiple times.
>>
>>Hence, the truth is that James Sitler committed his heinous acts of
>>depravity while under the auspices of Christ Church and its affiliate, New
>>Saint Andrews. Sitler continued to engage in this egregious preying upon
>>young victims even though several New Saint Andrews students found his
>>obsession with children to be very troubling and perhaps pathological. The
>>thoughtful reader will also see a connection between point 4 above and the
>>Sitler case. The thoughtful reader may also wonder when Cultmaster Wilson
>>first learned about the probabilities concerning Sitler's sexual
>>proclivities -- before or after his matriculation at New Saint Andrews.
>>
>>Art Deco (Wayne A. Fox)
>>deco at moscow.com
>>
>>
>>
>>----- Original Message -----
>>From: "Tom Hansen" <thansen at moscow.com>
>>To: "Vision 2020" <vision2020 at moscow.com>
>>Sent: Friday, February 16, 2007 6:02 AM
>>Subject: [Vision2020] Gooooooooood Morning, Moscow, Idaho
>>
>>
>> > "I'll just speak for our church, in Christ Church. If I found out that
>>a
>> > member of our church or a church officer was lying to non-believers in
>>the
>> > community, as a way to get by or protect themself or protect his
>>reputation,
>> > yes, he'd be disciplined."
>> >
>> > - Doug Wilson (January 31, 2007)
>> > http://www.tomandrodna.com/Sounds/Doug_Wilson_Liers_013107.mp3
>> >
>> > Stay tuned, Moscow.
>> >
>> > Tom Hansen
>> > Moscow, Idaho
>> >
>> > ******************************************
>> >
>> > "People walking up to you
>> > Singing glory hallelujah
>> > And they're trying to sock it to you
>> > In the name of the Lord."
>> >
>> > - Joe South (from "Games People Play")
>> >
>> > ******************************************
>> >
>> >
>> > =======================================================
>> > List services made available by First Step Internet,
>> > serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
>> > http://www.fsr.net
>> > mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
>> > =======================================================
>> >
>
>
>>=======================================================
>> List services made available by First Step Internet,
>> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
>> http://www.fsr.net
>> mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
>>=======================================================
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> http://homepage.msn.com/zune?icid=hmetagline
>
> =======================================================
> List services made available by First Step Internet,
> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
> http://www.fsr.net
> mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
> =======================================================
>
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=======================================================
List services made available by First Step Internet,
serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
http://www.fsr.net
mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
=======================================================
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://mailman.fsr.com/pipermail/vision2020/attachments/20070216/7cc42786/attachment-0001.html
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: image/gif
Size: 1878 bytes
Desc: not available
Url : http://mailman.fsr.com/pipermail/vision2020/attachments/20070216/7cc42786/attachment-0002.gif
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: image/gif
Size: 1040 bytes
Desc: not available
Url : http://mailman.fsr.com/pipermail/vision2020/attachments/20070216/7cc42786/attachment-0003.gif
More information about the Vision2020
mailing list