[Vision2020] Godwin's strike laws Again!
Tony
tonytime at clearwire.net
Fri Feb 9 09:17:07 PST 2007
Tom, I have answered the questions you pose several times. You refuse to
accept them. Let's move on.
-T
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tom Hansen" <thansen at moscow.com>
To: "'Tony'" <tonytime at clearwire.net>; "'david sarff'"
<davesway at hotmail.com>
Cc: <vision2020 at moscow.com>
Sent: Thursday, February 08, 2007 4:04 PM
Subject: RE: [Vision2020] Godwin's Law Strikes Again!
> ToeKnee stated:
>
> "Therefore, Sunil, if an African American had be-headed Daniel Pearle, and
> another had criticised the killer as a miserable nigger, the other would
> be
> guilty of using a term most folks would regard as referencing the
> perpetrator's race. However, for reasons stated above, the other could
> actually harbor NO RACIAL intent whatsoever, but himself be referencing
> the
> perp's atrocious behavior."
>
> That's just it, TK. The purpose in the use of the N-word in your example
> was solely for "referencing the perpetrator's race" NOT the perpetrator's
> deed.
>
> If you feel that I am mistaken, and the use of the N-word were strictly in
> reference to the deed, please relate to us what you identify as "N-word"
> [I,
> personally, refuse to use the word] behavior.
>
> Likewise, if RAGHEAD is strictly an attribute of specific behavior, to
> what
> behavior would you attribute "raghead"?
>
> Tom Hansen
> Moscow, Idaho
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: vision2020-bounces at moscow.com [mailto:vision2020-bounces at moscow.com]
> On Behalf Of Tony
> Sent: Thursday, February 08, 2007 3:49 PM
> To: david sarff
> Cc: vision2020 at moscow.com
> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Godwin's Law Strikes Again!
>
> A critical distinction: One can use a term others regard as inflamatory
> toward a race of people, without himself intending to cast aspersions on
> that group as a whole. Perhaps one finds the bombing of woman and
> children
> as well as the be-heading of terrified innocent captives abhorant, and
> finds
>
> that such perpetrators invariably wear head scarves. It is not entirely
> inconcievable that he might then use the term RAGHEAD in reference to
> these
> beasts who kill good people and kids, not in reference to their race, but
> out of a justified outrage over their BEHAVIOR. Such a scenario will
> frequently cause those hearing such commentary to conclude the
> writer/speaker is racist, ignorant as they are of his specific,
> non-racial,
> rather, behavioral based criticism.
>
> Therefore, Sunil, if an African American had be-headed Daniel Pearle, and
> another had criticised the killer as a miserable nigger, the other would
> be
> guilty of using a term most folks would regard as referencing the
> perpetrator's race. However, for reasons stated above, the other could
> actually harbor NO RACIAL intent whatsoever, but himself be referencing
> the
> perp's atrocious behavior.
>
> Now, Sunil, you have the information you need to avoid making anymore
> erroneous postings as to my motives.
>
> Cheers, -T
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "david sarff" <davesway at hotmail.com>
> To: <jampot at adelphia.net>; <sunilramalingam at hotmail.com>
> Cc: <vision2020 at moscow.com>
> Sent: Thursday, February 08, 2007 2:53 PM
> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Godwin's Law Strikes Again!
>
>
>>
>>>Hi Gary,
>> It seems to me there is a difference between cultivating hate and
>> expressing
>> situational anger. Cultivating kindness, a higher order art. In my
>> opinion
>
>> a
>> better route to an improved humanity. Not easy for a lot of us.
>> I don't see you as a hate cultivator, in fact it seems you might even be
>> trying to make efforts against it in concentrated areas.
>> In this situation and others similar to it, I think you miss-measured
>> Sue's
>> reaction. It was situational in reaction to a clear practitioner of hate
>> cultivation. Can she do better, you bet. Your knowing that, taking the
>> grain
>> of truth in her grain of fault and hyper-inflating it, is a bully's
>> support
>> group method. This technique is not a strength for anybody.
>> I agree with Sunil's response, but in light of your effort here, wonder
>> if
>> you might be amenable to exploring your examples a bit.
>> Recently, comedian Michael Richards made a lot of trouble for himself
>> using
>> the N word. I suspect you are familiar with that news line. Do you think
>> Richard made a forgivable mistake? Is there something there that he needs
>> to
>> remediate within himself?
>> Dave
>>
>>
>>>Gary,
>>>
>>>So if an African-American killed the same person in the manner you
>>>describe,
>>>the statement "That miserable nigger just cut the head off of a American
>>>non-combatant," would not be racist?
>>>
>>>You're right, I don't like or agree with your rationale.
>>>
>>>I think it's a mistake to link emotion with the use of racist language or
>>>attitudes. Racist decisions and statements are easily made in the
>>>absence
>>>of emotion; I think they're the results of attitudes developed over a
>>>lifetime and ingrained in cultures and individual people. I don't think
>>>any
>>>particular 'race' or group has a monopoly on racism. I know I've often
>>>heard racist statements expresses as casually as a request for a drink of
>>>water. There's no requirement for actions as you suggest; statements
>>>express one's views quite effectively.
>>>
>>>Sunil
>>>
>>>
>>> >From: "g. crabtree" <jampot at adelphia.net>
>>> >To: "Sunil Ramalingam" <sunilramalingam at hotmail.com>
>>> >CC: <vision2020 at moscow.com>
>>> >Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Godwin's Law Strikes Again!
>>> >Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2007 07:12:39 -0800
>>> >
>>> >Well Sunil, since you insist on trying to chase me out onto a thin
>>> >limb,
>>> >I'll give you my take on comments such as the one you refer to. You
>>> >won't
>>> >like or agree with it, I suspect, but here goes. Please bare in mind
>>> >that
>>>I
>>> >speak for myself and not anyone else to who you might attribute a lack
>>> >of
>>> >sensitivity.
>>> >
>>> >When someone makes a remark like "All ragheads are vermin and have no
>>>right
>>> >to live" it is inexcusably racist and deserves to be denounced at every
>>> >possible turn.
>>> >
>>> >When someone says "That miserable raghead just cut the head off of a
>>> >American non-combatant," it is a minor lapse of manner(s) or tact.
>>> >Unfortunate but, forgivable. Not, in my opinion, an indication of
>>> >racism
>>> >per se.
>>> >
>>> >In the first you are calmly stating your contemptible and unsupportable
>>> >opinion of a large group/race of people. In the second you are
>>> >expressing
>>> >your anger and frustration at an individual or small group of proven
>>> >evil
>>> >doers with language that is intemperate and poorly chosen.
>>> >
>>> >Racism is, in my opinion, demonstrated by actions. It is hinted at,
>>> >sometimes incorrectly, by individual words.
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >I hope that this does not change your opinion of my fitness as company
>>> >on
>>> >the list.
>>> >
>>> >g
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >----- Original Message -----
>>> >From: "Sunil Ramalingam" <sunilramalingam at hotmail.com>
>>> >Cc: <vision2020 at moscow.com>
>>> >Sent: Wednesday, February 07, 2007 9:31 PM
>>> >Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Godwin's Law Strikes Again!
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > > Gary,
>>> > >
>>> > > Are racist slurs minor lapses of manner or tact?
>>> > >
>>> > > I hope this question isn't considered trash talk, or 'self
>>> > > righteous,
>>> >self
>>> > > satisfied, school yard sputtering,' though you may well consider me
>>> > > an
>>> > > additional player; happy to have you as company on that list.
>>> > >
>>> > > Sunil
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > >>From: "g. crabtree" <jampot at adelphia.net>
>>> > >>To: <debismith at moscow.com>, <suehovey at moscow.com>,
>>> ><vision2020 at moscow.com>
>>> > >>CC: vision2020 at moscow.com
>>> > >>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Godwin's Law Strikes Again!
>>> > >>Date: Wed, 7 Feb 2007 20:07:27 -0800
>>> > >>
>>> > >>Extremely interesting. Should someone from the mildly conservative
>>>side
>>> >of
>>> > >>the fence have a minor lapse of manners or tact, the squealing and
>>> > >>castigation rises to a level at which our canine friends experience
>>> > >>profound and lasting aural pain.
>>> > >>
>>> > >>But on the other hand it's OK to demean the offender with a level of
>>> > >>calumny several orders of magnitude greater then anything originally
>>> >said.
>>> > >>I mean really, when you feel you have to resort to not so subtly
>>>calling
>>> > >>someone's mother a bitch along with the silly BS in the post to
>>> > >>which
>>> >I'm
>>> > >>responding, you really have to wonder If Ms. Hovey, Ms. R-S, Mr.
>>> > >>Fox,
>>> >and
>>> > >>the rest of the usual suspects have any sense of irony at all.
>>> > >>Double
>>> > >>standard risen to the power of hypocritical joke. What's even
>>> > >>funnier
>>>is
>>> > >>that this communication will likely raise the trash talk to the next
>>> >level
>>> > >>as well as spread it to additional players. Who needs comedy central
>>> >when
>>> > >>we've got the V.
>>> > >>
>>> > >>Commence self righteous, self satisfied, school yard sputtering,
>>> > >>g
>>> > >>
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > > =======================================================
>>> > > List services made available by First Step Internet,
>>> > > serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
>>> > > http://www.fsr.net
>>> > > mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
>>> > > =======================================================
>>> > >
>>>
>>>
>>>=======================================================
>>> List services made available by First Step Internet,
>>> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
>>> http://www.fsr.net
>>> mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
>>>=======================================================
>>
>> _________________________________________________________________
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>>
>>
>
>
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