[Vision2020] Godwin's Law Strikes Again!

Thu Feb 8 16:16:58 PST 2007

Tony,

I'm playing the devils advocate yet again. Not saying I agree or disagree 
with you comments but only to induce thought.

A young misguided Black youth from south central, decides to take advantage 
of an old lady who took the wrong exit. He thinks for a second then reacts 
and carjacks the unsuspecting grandma. In the scuffle, he shoots and kills 
her. He recieves 25 to life. My question is, is he a NXXXer for his 
behavior. Better yet.

A European American( white boy) decides to make a meth lab out of his single 
wide trailor, which shelters his three daughters and his has been wife. His 
drugs cause a fire in the trailer, killing two of the three daughters. Is he 
a cracker, white trash, honkey boy?

Cheers
Matt

>From: "Tony" <tonytime at clearwire.net>
>To: "david sarff" <davesway at hotmail.com>
>CC: vision2020 at moscow.com
>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Godwin's Law Strikes Again!
>Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2007 15:49:17 -0800
>
>A critical distinction:  One can use a term others regard as inflamatory
>toward a race of people, without himself intending to cast aspersions on
>that group as a whole.  Perhaps one finds the bombing of woman and children
>as well as the be-heading of terrified innocent captives abhorant, and 
>finds
>that such perpetrators invariably wear head scarves.  It is not entirely
>inconcievable that he might then use the term RAGHEAD in reference to these
>beasts who kill good people and kids, not in reference to their race, but
>out of a justified outrage over their BEHAVIOR.  Such a scenario will
>frequently cause those hearing such commentary to conclude the
>writer/speaker is racist, ignorant as they are of his specific, non-racial,
>rather, behavioral based criticism.
>
>Therefore, Sunil, if an African American had be-headed Daniel Pearle, and
>another had criticised the killer as a miserable nigger, the other would be
>guilty of using a term most folks would regard as referencing the
>perpetrator's race.  However, for reasons stated above, the other could
>actually harbor NO RACIAL intent whatsoever, but himself be referencing the
>perp's atrocious behavior.
>
>Now, Sunil, you have the information you need to avoid making anymore
>erroneous postings as to my motives.
>
>Cheers,  -T
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "david sarff" <davesway at hotmail.com>
>To: <jampot at adelphia.net>; <sunilramalingam at hotmail.com>
>Cc: <vision2020 at moscow.com>
>Sent: Thursday, February 08, 2007 2:53 PM
>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Godwin's Law Strikes Again!
>
>
> >
> >>Hi Gary,
> > It seems to me there is a difference between cultivating hate and
> > expressing
> > situational anger. Cultivating kindness, a higher order art. In my 
>opinion
> > a
> > better route to an improved humanity. Not easy for a lot of us.
> > I don't see you as a hate cultivator, in fact it seems you might even be
> > trying to make efforts against it in concentrated areas.
> > In this situation and others similar to it, I think you miss-measured
> > Sue's
> > reaction. It was situational in reaction to a clear practitioner of hate
> > cultivation. Can she do better, you bet. Your knowing that, taking the
> > grain
> > of truth in her grain of fault and hyper-inflating it, is a bully's
> > support
> > group method. This technique is not a strength for anybody.
> > I agree with Sunil's response, but in light of your effort here, wonder 
>if
> > you might be amenable to exploring your examples a bit.
> > Recently, comedian Michael Richards made a lot of trouble for himself
> > using
> > the N word. I suspect you are familiar with that news line. Do you think
> > Richard made a forgivable mistake? Is there something there that he 
>needs
> > to
> > remediate within himself?
> > Dave
> >
> >
> >>Gary,
> >>
> >>So if an African-American killed the same person in the manner you
> >>describe,
> >>the statement "That miserable nigger just cut the head off of a American
> >>non-combatant," would not be racist?
> >>
> >>You're right, I don't like or agree with your rationale.
> >>
> >>I think it's a mistake to link emotion with the use of racist language 
>or
> >>attitudes.  Racist decisions and statements are easily made in the 
>absence
> >>of emotion; I think they're the results of attitudes developed over a
> >>lifetime and ingrained in cultures and individual people.  I don't think
> >>any
> >>particular 'race' or group has a monopoly on racism.  I know I've often
> >>heard racist statements expresses as casually as a request for a drink 
>of
> >>water.  There's no requirement for actions as you suggest; statements
> >>express one's views quite effectively.
> >>
> >>Sunil
> >>
> >>
> >> >From: "g. crabtree" <jampot at adelphia.net>
> >> >To: "Sunil Ramalingam" <sunilramalingam at hotmail.com>
> >> >CC: <vision2020 at moscow.com>
> >> >Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Godwin's Law Strikes Again!
> >> >Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2007 07:12:39 -0800
> >> >
> >> >Well Sunil, since you insist on trying to chase me out onto a thin 
>limb,
> >> >I'll give you my take on comments such as the one you refer to. You
> >> >won't
> >> >like or agree with it, I suspect, but here goes. Please bare in mind
> >> >that
> >>I
> >> >speak for myself and not anyone else to who you might attribute a lack
> >> >of
> >> >sensitivity.
> >> >
> >> >When someone makes a remark like "All ragheads are vermin and have no
> >>right
> >> >to live" it is inexcusably racist and deserves to be denounced at 
>every
> >> >possible turn.
> >> >
> >> >When someone says "That miserable raghead just cut the head off of a
> >> >American non-combatant," it is a minor lapse of manner(s) or tact.
> >> >Unfortunate but, forgivable. Not, in my opinion, an indication of 
>racism
> >> >per se.
> >> >
> >> >In the first you are calmly stating your contemptible and 
>unsupportable
> >> >opinion of a large group/race of people. In the second you are
> >> >expressing
> >> >your anger and frustration at an individual or small group of proven
> >> >evil
> >> >doers with language that is intemperate and poorly chosen.
> >> >
> >> >Racism is, in my opinion, demonstrated by actions. It is hinted at,
> >> >sometimes incorrectly, by individual words.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >I hope that this does not change your opinion of my fitness as company
> >> >on
> >> >the list.
> >> >
> >> >g
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >----- Original Message -----
> >> >From: "Sunil Ramalingam" <sunilramalingam at hotmail.com>
> >> >Cc: <vision2020 at moscow.com>
> >> >Sent: Wednesday, February 07, 2007 9:31 PM
> >> >Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Godwin's Law Strikes Again!
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > > Gary,
> >> > >
> >> > > Are racist slurs minor lapses of manner or tact?
> >> > >
> >> > > I hope this question isn't considered trash talk, or 'self 
>righteous,
> >> >self
> >> > > satisfied, school yard sputtering,' though you may well consider me
> >> > > an
> >> > > additional player; happy to have you as company on that list.
> >> > >
> >> > > Sunil
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > >>From: "g. crabtree" <jampot at adelphia.net>
> >> > >>To: <debismith at moscow.com>, <suehovey at moscow.com>,
> >> ><vision2020 at moscow.com>
> >> > >>CC: vision2020 at moscow.com
> >> > >>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Godwin's Law Strikes Again!
> >> > >>Date: Wed, 7 Feb 2007 20:07:27 -0800
> >> > >>
> >> > >>Extremely interesting. Should someone from the mildly conservative
> >>side
> >> >of
> >> > >>the fence have a minor lapse of manners or tact, the squealing and
> >> > >>castigation rises to a level at which our canine friends experience
> >> > >>profound and lasting aural pain.
> >> > >>
> >> > >>But on the other hand it's OK to demean the offender with a level 
>of
> >> > >>calumny several orders of magnitude greater then anything 
>originally
> >> >said.
> >> > >>I mean really, when you feel you have to resort to not so subtly
> >>calling
> >> > >>someone's mother a bitch along with the silly BS in the post to 
>which
> >> >I'm
> >> > >>responding, you really have to wonder If Ms. Hovey, Ms. R-S, Mr. 
>Fox,
> >> >and
> >> > >>the rest of the usual suspects have any sense of irony at all. 
>Double
> >> > >>standard risen to the power of hypocritical joke. What's even 
>funnier
> >>is
> >> > >>that this communication will likely raise the trash talk to the 
>next
> >> >level
> >> > >>as well as spread it to additional players. Who needs comedy 
>central
> >> >when
> >> > >>we've got the V.
> >> > >>
> >> > >>Commence self righteous, self satisfied, school yard sputtering,
> >> > >>g
> >> > >>
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > > =======================================================
> >> > > List services made available by First Step Internet,
> >> > > serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
> >> > >               http://www.fsr.net
> >> > >          mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
> >> > > =======================================================
> >> > >
> >>
> >>
> >>=======================================================
> >>  List services made available by First Step Internet,
> >>  serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
> >>                http://www.fsr.net
> >>           mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
> >>=======================================================
> >
> > _________________________________________________________________
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>
>
>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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> > List services made available by First Step Internet,
> > serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
> >               http://www.fsr.net
> >          mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
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>=======================================================
>  List services made available by First Step Internet,
>  serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
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>           mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
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