[Vision2020] Godwin's Law Strikes Again!

lfalen lfalen at turbonet.com
Thu Feb 8 17:01:39 PST 2007 

Here is a true story. When I was in the army a Sergeant called in a PFC who had been causing trouble and called him to attention. He said " It's niggers like you that make it hard on the rest of us coloured folks". Is this appropriate in this context? This was 1963.
Roger
-----Original message-----
From: "Matt Decker" mattd2107 at hotmail.com
Date: Thu, 08 Feb 2007 17:16:58 -0800
To: tonytime at clearwire.net,  davesway at hotmail.com
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Godwin's Law Strikes Again!

> Tony,
> 
> I'm playing the devils advocate yet again. Not saying I agree or disagree 
> with you comments but only to induce thought.
> 
> A young misguided Black youth from south central, decides to take advantage 
> of an old lady who took the wrong exit. He thinks for a second then reacts 
> and carjacks the unsuspecting grandma. In the scuffle, he shoots and kills 
> her. He recieves 25 to life. My question is, is he a NXXXer for his 
> behavior. Better yet.
> 
> A European American( white boy) decides to make a meth lab out of his single 
> wide trailor, which shelters his three daughters and his has been wife. His 
> drugs cause a fire in the trailer, killing two of the three daughters. Is he 
> a cracker, white trash, honkey boy?
> 
> Cheers
> Matt
> 
> 
> >From: "Tony" <tonytime at clearwire.net>
> >To: "david sarff" <davesway at hotmail.com>
> >CC: vision2020 at moscow.com
> >Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Godwin's Law Strikes Again!
> >Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2007 15:49:17 -0800
> >
> >A critical distinction:  One can use a term others regard as inflamatory
> >toward a race of people, without himself intending to cast aspersions on
> >that group as a whole.  Perhaps one finds the bombing of woman and children
> >as well as the be-heading of terrified innocent captives abhorant, and 
> >finds
> >that such perpetrators invariably wear head scarves.  It is not entirely
> >inconcievable that he might then use the term RAGHEAD in reference to these
> >beasts who kill good people and kids, not in reference to their race, but
> >out of a justified outrage over their BEHAVIOR.  Such a scenario will
> >frequently cause those hearing such commentary to conclude the
> >writer/speaker is racist, ignorant as they are of his specific, non-racial,
> >rather, behavioral based criticism.
> >
> >Therefore, Sunil, if an African American had be-headed Daniel Pearle, and
> >another had criticised the killer as a miserable nigger, the other would be
> >guilty of using a term most folks would regard as referencing the
> >perpetrator's race.  However, for reasons stated above, the other could
> >actually harbor NO RACIAL intent whatsoever, but himself be referencing the
> >perp's atrocious behavior.
> >
> >Now, Sunil, you have the information you need to avoid making anymore
> >erroneous postings as to my motives.
> >
> >Cheers,  -T
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: "david sarff" <davesway at hotmail.com>
> >To: <jampot at adelphia.net>; <sunilramalingam at hotmail.com>
> >Cc: <vision2020 at moscow.com>
> >Sent: Thursday, February 08, 2007 2:53 PM
> >Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Godwin's Law Strikes Again!
> >
> >
> > >
> > >>Hi Gary,
> > > It seems to me there is a difference between cultivating hate and
> > > expressing
> > > situational anger. Cultivating kindness, a higher order art. In my 
> >opinion
> > > a
> > > better route to an improved humanity. Not easy for a lot of us.
> > > I don't see you as a hate cultivator, in fact it seems you might even be
> > > trying to make efforts against it in concentrated areas.
> > > In this situation and others similar to it, I think you miss-measured
> > > Sue's
> > > reaction. It was situational in reaction to a clear practitioner of hate
> > > cultivation. Can she do better, you bet. Your knowing that, taking the
> > > grain
> > > of truth in her grain of fault and hyper-inflating it, is a bully's
> > > support
> > > group method. This technique is not a strength for anybody.
> > > I agree with Sunil's response, but in light of your effort here, wonder 
> >if
> > > you might be amenable to exploring your examples a bit.
> > > Recently, comedian Michael Richards made a lot of trouble for himself
> > > using
> > > the N word. I suspect you are familiar with that news line. Do you think
> > > Richard made a forgivable mistake? Is there something there that he 
> >needs
> > > to
> > > remediate within himself?
> > > Dave
> > >
> > >
> > >>Gary,
> > >>
> > >>So if an African-American killed the same person in the manner you
> > >>describe,
> > >>the statement "That miserable nigger just cut the head off of a American
> > >>non-combatant," would not be racist?
> > >>
> > >>You're right, I don't like or agree with your rationale.
> > >>
> > >>I think it's a mistake to link emotion with the use of racist language 
> >or
> > >>attitudes.  Racist decisions and statements are easily made in the 
> >absence
> > >>of emotion; I think they're the results of attitudes developed over a
> > >>lifetime and ingrained in cultures and individual people.  I don't think
> > >>any
> > >>particular 'race' or group has a monopoly on racism.  I know I've often
> > >>heard racist statements expresses as casually as a request for a drink 
> >of
> > >>water.  There's no requirement for actions as you suggest; statements
> > >>express one's views quite effectively.
> > >>
> > >>Sunil
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> >From: "g. crabtree" <jampot at adelphia.net>
> > >> >To: "Sunil Ramalingam" <sunilramalingam at hotmail.com>
> > >> >CC: <vision2020 at moscow.com>
> > >> >Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Godwin's Law Strikes Again!
> > >> >Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2007 07:12:39 -0800
> > >> >
> > >> >Well Sunil, since you insist on trying to chase me out onto a thin 
> >limb,
> > >> >I'll give you my take on comments such as the one you refer to. You
> > >> >won't
> > >> >like or agree with it, I suspect, but here goes. Please bare in mind
> > >> >that
> > >>I
> > >> >speak for myself and not anyone else to who you might attribute a lack
> > >> >of
> > >> >sensitivity.
> > >> >
> > >> >When someone makes a remark like "All ragheads are vermin and have no
> > >>right
> > >> >to live" it is inexcusably racist and deserves to be denounced at 
> >every
> > >> >possible turn.
> > >> >
> > >> >When someone says "That miserable raghead just cut the head off of a
> > >> >American non-combatant," it is a minor lapse of manner(s) or tact.
> > >> >Unfortunate but, forgivable. Not, in my opinion, an indication of 
> >racism
> > >> >per se.
> > >> >
> > >> >In the first you are calmly stating your contemptible and 
> >unsupportable
> > >> >opinion of a large group/race of people. In the second you are
> > >> >expressing
> > >> >your anger and frustration at an individual or small group of proven
> > >> >evil
> > >> >doers with language that is intemperate and poorly chosen.
> > >> >
> > >> >Racism is, in my opinion, demonstrated by actions. It is hinted at,
> > >> >sometimes incorrectly, by individual words.
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> >I hope that this does not change your opinion of my fitness as company
> > >> >on
> > >> >the list.
> > >> >
> > >> >g
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> >----- Original Message -----
> > >> >From: "Sunil Ramalingam" <sunilramalingam at hotmail.com>
> > >> >Cc: <vision2020 at moscow.com>
> > >> >Sent: Wednesday, February 07, 2007 9:31 PM
> > >> >Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Godwin's Law Strikes Again!
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> > > Gary,
> > >> > >
> > >> > > Are racist slurs minor lapses of manner or tact?
> > >> > >
> > >> > > I hope this question isn't considered trash talk, or 'self 
> >righteous,
> > >> >self
> > >> > > satisfied, school yard sputtering,' though you may well consider me
> > >> > > an
> > >> > > additional player; happy to have you as company on that list.
> > >> > >
> > >> > > Sunil
> > >> > >
> > >> > >
> > >> > >>From: "g. crabtree" <jampot at adelphia.net>
> > >> > >>To: <debismith at moscow.com>, <suehovey at moscow.com>,
> > >> ><vision2020 at moscow.com>
> > >> > >>CC: vision2020 at moscow.com
> > >> > >>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Godwin's Law Strikes Again!
> > >> > >>Date: Wed, 7 Feb 2007 20:07:27 -0800
> > >> > >>
> > >> > >>Extremely interesting. Should someone from the mildly conservative
> > >>side
> > >> >of
> > >> > >>the fence have a minor lapse of manners or tact, the squealing and
> > >> > >>castigation rises to a level at which our canine friends experience
> > >> > >>profound and lasting aural pain.
> > >> > >>
> > >> > >>But on the other hand it's OK to demean the offender with a level 
> >of
> > >> > >>calumny several orders of magnitude greater then anything 
> >originally
> > >> >said.
> > >> > >>I mean really, when you feel you have to resort to not so subtly
> > >>calling
> > >> > >>someone's mother a bitch along with the silly BS in the post to 
> >which
> > >> >I'm
> > >> > >>responding, you really have to wonder If Ms. Hovey, Ms. R-S, Mr. 
> >Fox,
> > >> >and
> > >> > >>the rest of the usual suspects have any sense of irony at all. 
> >Double
> > >> > >>standard risen to the power of hypocritical joke. What's even 
> >funnier
> > >>is
> > >> > >>that this communication will likely raise the trash talk to the 
> >next
> > >> >level
> > >> > >>as well as spread it to additional players. Who needs comedy 
> >central
> > >> >when
> > >> > >>we've got the V.
> > >> > >>
> > >> > >>Commence self righteous, self satisfied, school yard sputtering,
> > >> > >>g
> > >> > >>
> > >> > >
> > >> > >
> > >> > > =======================================================
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> > >>
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> > >>  serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
> > >>                http://www.fsr.net
> > >>           mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
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> > >
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