[Vision2020] Attendees At UN Climate Conference Pay ForConference Associated CO2 Emissions

g. crabtree jampot at roadrunner.com
Wed Dec 12 07:15:44 PST 2007

Interesting response. So everything that comes from a site with a .gov 
address is propaganda? The folks at weather.gov, grants. gov, health.gov, 
sba.gov, fbi.gov, irs.gov, idaho.gov, etc. are going to be surprised and 
disappointed to hear that. Quite frankly I would be a lot more suspicious of 
information that came from a .org address. You have just GOT to know that 
there will be an agenda associated with anything they have to tell you.

Next we have the ever popular "anyone who has ever been, worked for, or been 
in the presence of a conservative is, by definition, a lying rat bastard." 
We all know that only liberals (and even then, only those who work for 
MSNBC) can be trusted to bring us the unvarnished truth.

Moving on, the my scientist is better then your scientist argument is 
brought forward. I'm sorry but here is nothing that leads me to believe that 
Schmidt, Harrison, and Monbiot (a journalist, not a scientist) have more 
access to the truth than Monckton, Evans, Gray, McShane, and Alexander. I 
don't see where a persons opinion with regard to those with AIDS or whether 
you personally think someone's a nice guy has anything to do with the 
accuracy of their claims.

You are absolutely correct in one area however. Nothing you have posted has 
changed my mind and I will continue to enjoy driving my car. Are you 
implying that YOU will be forsaking all carbon generating forms of travel or 
just that you will continue to do it with a big old mopey face? I was 
unaware that doing the exact same things that us nasty old conservatives do 
but being unhappy about it was better for the environment. I'll try to frown 
more when I drive.


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "KRFP" <krfp at radiofreemoscow.org>
To: "Vision 2020" <vision2020 at moscow.com>
Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2007 5:52 PM
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Attendees At UN Climate Conference Pay 
ForConference Associated CO2 Emissions

> This is not a "news item", Gary.  This is a propaganda item!
> First off it's a .gov address, that should give you the first clue.  If
> you want to know more, here are the first few paragraphs from your
> "reporter's" SourceWatch entry:
>> Marc Morano is communications director for the U.S. Senate Committee
>> on Environment and Public Works. Morano commenced work with the
>> committee under Senator James Inhofe, who was majority chairman of the
>> committee until January 2007. In December 2006 Morano launched a blog
>> on the committee's website that largely promotes the views of climate
>> change sceptics.
>> Morano is a former journalist with Cybercast News Service (owned by
>> the conservative Media Research Center). CNS and Morano were the first
>> source in May 2004 of the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth claims against
>> John Kerry in the 2004 presidential election [1] and in January 2006
>> of similar smears against Vietnam war veteran John Murtha.
>> Morano was "previously known as Rush Limbaugh's 'Man in Washington,'
>> as reporter and producer for the Rush Limbaugh Television Show, as
>> well as a former correspondent and producer for American Investigator,
>> the nationally syndicated TV newsmagazine."
> http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Marc_Morano#Profiles
> The Wiki article on Lord Christopher Monckton, who is quoted, makes for
> some good reading as well.  Here's a snippet:
>> Gavin Schmidt has criticised Monckton's analysis of climate
>> sensitivity as "sleight-of-hand to fool the unwary" [1]. Dr. Stephan
>> Harrison criticises Moncktons' articles as "full of errors, misuse of
>> data and cherry-picked examples" [2]. The British writer and
>> environmentalist George Monbiot has criticized Monckton's arguments as
>> "cherry-picking, downright misrepresentation and pseudo-scientific
>> gibberish."[19] In a response published in The Guardian, Monckton has
>> argued that he "got the science right" and that Monbiot got "too many
>> facts wrong" and had shown "ignorance of the elementary physics".
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christopher_Monckton,_3rd_Viscount_Monckton_of_Brenchley
> Nice peer review!
> It also seems he's  been lobbying the Senate on behalf of ExxonMobil.
> He also thinks all people with AIDS should be locked up and we should
> have mandatory monthly tests.  Nice guy.
> I like this sentence from the Australian: " We have the missing [human]
> signature [in the atmosphere], we have the IPCC models being wrong and
> we have the lack of a temperature going up the last 5 years,".  Except
> that 2006 was the hottest year on record, just above 2005 and 1998, how
> is this a "lack of temperature going up"?  Have you seen the graphs?
> Of course none of this will change your mind, and in a way I'm jealous,
> with your head in the sand like that you can still enjoy driving your car.
> BTW I do agree with what's been said about the carbon credit thing being
> a sham.  But you may not remember that it was the US (Clinton) which
> insisted on including it in the Kyoto protocol in the first place (over
> the objections of the majority of the delegates).  As I recall, we threw
> a tantrum and said we wouldn't sign if carbon trading wasn't included,
> then we didn't sign anyway, total irony.
> Dave
> (I suppose I should put the personal post disclaimer here)
> g. crabtree wrote:
>> I generally hate to post news items to this list but, for those of you
>> who've been afraid to light their Yule logs for fear of their carbon
>> footprint going up half a shoe size read this, take a deep breath, and 
>> relax
>> a little.
>> http://epw.senate.gov/public/index.cfm?FuseAction=Minority.Blogs&ContentRecord_id=c9554887-802a-23ad-4303-68f67ebd151c
>> Anybody out there that was planning on giving any of their friends or
>> relatives a nice card and a bunch of bogus carbon credits may want to
>> reconsider. Fire up that old coal powered sleigh and go over the river 
>> and
>> through the woods to see Grandmother. She'll appreciate it.
>> g
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