[Vision2020] Civility is a two-way street
Scott Dredge
sdredge at yahoo.com
Thu Dec 6 23:52:28 PST 2007
Shamelessly stolen from Monty Python and the Holy Grail...
[with a Brit-ish accent]
"Well, that's no ordinary crabtree. That's the most foul, cruel, and bad-tempered v2020er you ever set eyes on. Look, that crabtree's got a vicious streak a mile wide, it's a killer! It'll do you a trick, mate! I'm warning you! He's got huge, sharp teeth -- he can leap about -- look at the bones!"
"I warned you! I warned you! But did you listen to me? Oh, no, you knew it all, didn't you? Oh, it's just a harmless little crabtree, isn't it? Well, it's always the same, I always warn 'em, but do they listen to me?"
-Scott
-----
Original Message -----
From:
keely
emerinemix
To:
g.
crabtree ; Scott Dredge ; vision2020 at moscow.com
Sent:
Wednesday, December 05, 2007 7:05 PM
Subject:
RE: [Vision2020] Civility is a two-way street
I don't know Ted. Never met him, wouldn't recognize
him if he was walking down the street in front of me. However, I've
found him to be honest and insightful, and he doesn't deserve
this.
Keely
From: jampot at roadrunner.com
To: sdredge at yahoo.com; vision2020 at moscow.com
Date:
Wed, 5 Dec 2007 18:07:26 -0800
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Civility is
a two-way street
And there we go! Why in the world
would I need to devote any effort to making Mr. Muffett look silly
when he does such a yeoman like job all by his lonesome. His " I am
Spock, resurrected" spiel takes pompous to a here to fore
unexplored level and his claims of being on the very verge of becoming a
transcendent creature of pure intellect makes me wonder if he gets out
of his mothers basement much. (I picture brain-Guy from MST3K hollering
up the stairs "Quiet Ma, I'm almost ready to shed this vile carbon based
vessel and become a ray of environmentally friendly energy. Bring me
another Twinkie and a Sprite!" ) Keep pecking away on that man made
global warming obsession you've got going, I'm sure that Al Gore will be
around any day to thank you for your efforts assuming you haven't, well
you know, transformed. I know I sure am happy you've been on the
case. My appreciation is boundless, my amusement total.
Keep on thinkin' the big thoughts
Tiger,
g
----- Original Message -----
From: "Scott Dredge" <sdredge at yahoo.com>
To: <vision2020 at moscow.com>
Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2007 12:42
AM
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Civility is a
two-way street
>> Ted wrote:
>> Scott et.
al.
>>
>> You must be kidding?
>>
> Not
at all.
>
>> You write as though you think Vision2020 is
some sort of ghetto gang
>> scene ("street fighter?" "toe to
toe?") where making an ass of someone
>> dictates dominance and
power? How pathetic! The more enlightened
>>
readership on this list does not buy into this crude mentality.
>
> v2020 is an unmoderated list. The more enlightened
readership hits the delete
> key on most of the postings including
this one without reading any further (I
> would hope).
>
>> Let Gary Crabtree "make complete asses out of the both of
you on this
>> site," as you wrote. I''ll just sit back
and laugh!
>
> At this point, fine by me.
>
>> I am above the sort of irrational nonsense that Gary
Crabtree posts to
>> this list, or to that community joke,
"wrong-mind.us" I don't care
>> what he says, if there is
no content worth responding to, I simply
>> ignore it as not
worth my time. Ad hominem attacks, be my guest.
>> I've
faced this many times before, in rather extreme ways, and if
Gary
>> Crabtree thinks he can rattle my cage, "bring it on
(God bless
>> conservative hero and professional moron George
W. Bush for this now
>> immortal phrase signifying the idiocy
of cowboy macho
>> overconfidence)."
>
>
Perfect! I hope we don't ever again need to read from you or
anyone else
> about how unethical Gary was for posting a private
email considering you
> don't care what he posts. But since
this cardinal sin is such a hot button
> issue that really gets
under your craw, I guess we'll just have to wait and
> see who
gets blamed for what wrongdoing the next time HeirDoug or
>
(anyone else for that matter) just 'cuts & pastes" from the v2020
archives.
>
>> I am interested in fact based logical
discourse on important issues,
>> in the Truth, not personal
ego battles, or moral superiority
>> competitions between
morally faulted human beings (as we all are!).
>> Anyone
following my responses to ridiculous irrational attacks on
>>
Vision2020, aimed my way, should realize this.
>
>
Great! Start a new thread with a new subject line on some new
topic
> more important than this one.
>
>> The
Temple of Reason is where I dwell on this list. And
without
>> radical means of persuasion, I will not falter from
this position.
>
> Good to hear.
>
>> Come
on Gary, make an ass of me! I'll relish ignoring your
every
>> attempt, as I continue to post on more important
issues, like
>> anthropogenic climate change. I know how
devoted you are to
>> discovering the truth on this issue,
being someone focused on the
>> objective pursuit of
knowledge... Well, we can hope!
>
> Good to hear a couple
paragraphs above that you'll be ignoring Gary.
>
>> Ted
Moffett
>
> Scott Dredge
>
> On 12/3/07, Scott
Dredge <sdredge at yahoo.com>
wrote:
>> Ted / Joe,
>>
>> FWIW, I'm speaking
for Gary because I truly do not want to see him
> make
complete asses out of the both of you on this site on this issue
and
> I'm trying to explain this in a way that I *thought*
would make sense
> to both of you. Gary's not going to
follow your idea of proper list
> server etiquette. He
doesn't give a good God Damn if anyone thinks his
> posting
of a private email was unethical. He posted a private email
to
> let everyone know he received it and my guess is that he
would prefer
> to receive no more emails like it (or maybe he
would like to receive
> them and so he can post them publicly
again). So don't send any to him.
>>
>> Gary can
waste his time responding on this but he's going to
make
> both of you look just plain bad. If you want to
go toe to toe with Gary,
> be my guest. Just be aware
that Gary is a street fighter and he's not
> going to play by
whatever rules you think he should play by and
> ultimately
he's going to bait both of you into looking very foolish.
He's
> good at it. Beyond that, he's not emotionally
charged by this issue like
> you and Joe are which is what
started this whole foolish nonsense to
> begin with.
He's not the one keeping this thing alive, the two of
your
> are along with a little help from HeirDoug posing in
drag. If you want
> this issue to go away, then drop
it. I've got nothing more to say on
> it so I'll just
stand back, watch the carnage that Gary dishes out,
and
> just shake my head.
>>
>> Take it
away Gary, I'm sure this is going to be child's play for
you
> but I've done my best to warn both of
them...
>>
>> -Scott
>>
>> -----
Original Message ----
>> From: Ted Moffett <starbliss at gmail.com>
>> To: Scott Dredge <sdredge at yahoo.com>; Joe
Campbell
> <joekc at adelphia.net>
>> Cc: vision2020 at moscow.com
>> Sent: Sunday, December 2, 2007 11:34:29 PM
>>
Subject: [Vision2020] Civility is a two-way
street
>>
>>
>> Scott et.
al.
>>
>> You write as though you are Gary Crabtree's
conscience in this
> matter,
>> when you write that
"He's more than happy to move forward." Let Gary
>> speak
for himself. Why are you speaking for him?
>>
>>
Also, Joe's recent response to Gary in this thread was correct
in
>> pointing out that the assumption that Gary might have
posted the
>> recent re-posting of Joe's private e-mail, was
not based on
>> "non-existent evidence," as Gary claimed.
The fact Gary originally
>> posted this private message, and
has disputed with Joe many times on
>> Vision2020, is evidence
to suggest Gary might engage in this conduct
>> again, to
undermine Joe's recent post with this subject heading,
>>
responding to Atwood's Daily News Op-Ed.
>>
>> Also,
your argument immediately below, attempting to remove any
>>
responsibility for objectionable list serve conduct on the part
of
>> Gary for posting of a private e-mail, is
questionable. It is
> accepted
>> by almost
all on this list serve that private e-mail not be posted to
>>
the list. If this was happening with regularity, it would
certainly
>> undermine the health of this list, based in part
on trust between
>> people for respect for their privacy.
I do not know all the details
>> of the case with Wilson and
Morin you refer to, but I doubt the two
>> examples are
precisely analogous. I have received insulting private
>>
e-mails from Vision2020 list members (along with a much
larger
>> percentage of positive private responses!), but I
have never
> responded
>> by posting these insulting
private messages.
>>
>> Scott
wrote:
>>
>> Sending Gary an insulting email was your
fault. You apologized.
>> Nothing more needs to be
said. Trying to pin any blame on Gary for
>> forwarding
it v2020 is as weak to me as Doug Wilson's complaint
>> against
Terry Morin for posting supposedly secret documents for the
>>
whole world to see Doug as a rotten, lying skunk.
>>
------------------
>> Vision2020 Post: Ted
Moffett
>>
>>
>> On 12/2/07, Scott Dredge
<sdredge at yahoo.com>
wrote:
>> > Joe,
>> >
>> > When this
brouhaha first came to light, I recall you
apologizing
> and
>> Gary Crabtree accepting
the apology and saying something to
effect
> of
>> "let's move on". Gary
isn't the one being petty about this and
I'm
> sure
>> he'd like nothing better than to
move on to scoring more debate
> points
>> on
v2020 which is something he does very well being the
master
> debater
>> that he is.
>>
>
>> > Sending Gary an insulting email was your
fault. You apologized.
>> Nothing more needs to be
said. Trying to pin any blame on Gary for
>>
forwarding it v2020 is as weak to me as Doug Wilson's
complaint
> against Terry
>> Morin for posting
supposedly secret documents for the whole world to
>> see
Doug as a rotten, lying skunk.
>> >
>> > There's
not much you can do about Dale or HeirDoug reposting
it
> again
>> and again. They don't
quite understand the whole "I'm sorry, I
made
> a
>> mistake, I'll try not to make the
same one again" scenario. What
> else
>>
would you expect from disciples of a rogue pastor who makes
all
> sorts
>> of ludicrous statements and
never refutes them because in his
own
> mind
>> it's a weakness to admit to any
mistake (no matter how painfully
>> obvious)?
>>
>
>> > My advice is that when Heirdoug plays this card
again - and you
> know
>> he will because he's
not very creative - leave Gary out of the mix.
>> He's
more than happy to move forward.
>> >
>> >
-Scott
>> >
>> > ----- Original Message
----
>> > From: Joe Campbell <joekc at adelphia.net>
>> > To: vision2020 at moscow.com
>> > Sent: Sunday, December 2, 2007 8:46:50
PM
>> > Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Civility is a 2-way
street.
>> >
>> >
>> > Ted writes:
"...given Gary Crabtree was the fully
>> > disclosed source
of the original posting of this private e-mail, in
>> >
violation of the 'rule' that private messages not be posted
to
>> > Vision2020, it is reasonable to assume he might
engage in the same
>> > conduct again,
correct?"
>> >
>> > Gary writes: "Making
assumptions based on nonexistent evidence is
>> >
generally
>> > ill advised."
>> >
>>
> Your NAME was on the the posted letter. How is that a lack
of
>> evidence?
>> >
>> > For the
record, I don't think you posted the recent letter. But
you
>> did
>> > post the
>>
> initial PRIVATE letter -- precisely so your Kirk friends
could
>> re-post
>> > it
over
>> > and over and over again. So it isn't exactly as if
you are without
>> > blame!
>>
>
>> > I await your insults, fallacies, and evasions. If
nothing else,
> they
>> > provide
a
>> > source of amusement to the other readers.
>>
>
>> > -- Joe Campbell
>> >
>
>
>
>
>
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