[Vision2020] Conservatives and Hypocrisy: The Lies of LarryCraig

Sunil Ramalingam sunilramalingam at hotmail.com
Mon Dec 3 06:42:02 PST 2007

I agree with what  you just said.  But it's news when a politician is convicted of a crime.  And if the politician makes denials as Craig did subsequent to the news of the convictions breaking, then he makes his sex life a public issue, and fair game.

Ask Gary Hart.  He invited the scrutiny, and the press took him up on it.


Date: Sun, 2 Dec 2007 20:44:02 -0800
From: donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Conservatives and Hypocrisy: The Lies of LarryCraig
To: sunilramalingam at hotmail.com; vision2020 at moscow.com

I say who cares what a politician does with another consenting adult? Unless he is harming someone, he should be left alone.      Best,     Donovan

Sunil Ramalingam <sunilramalingam at hotmail.com> wrote:          It's strange how no one takes him at his word.  The bastards who judge him would probably refuse to take O.J. at his word, should he testify at his next trial that he's not guilty of these new charges.  And why not?  I mean, no one could know better than O.J., right?  Neither has a motive to lie,


      From: jampot at roadrunner.com
To: donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com; gray.treecrab.aka.big.bertha at gmail.com; vision2020 at moscow.com
Date: Sun, 2 Dec 2007 12:38:39 -0800
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Conservatives and Hypocrisy: The Lies of LarryCraig

        I could certainly have done without that pseudo news item, the graphic descriptions of sexual nastiness in particular. How come no one takes Craig at his word with regard to his sexuality. After all, no one would know better than him. It's not too large a stretch of the imagination to believe that a tactic such as this might be used to damage an effective conservative legislator.     g    ----- Original Message -----   From: Donovan Arnold   To: Gray Tree Crab aka Big Bertha ; vision2020 at moscow.com   Sent: Sunday, December 02, 2007 9:25 AM  Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Conservatives and Hypocrisy: The Lies of LarryCraig  
  "Mike Jones, 50, told the Statesman Craig paid him $200 for sex on a night between November 2004 and March 2005. Jones said he recognized Craig only after August."     This guy, Mike Jones, seems to have a history of sleeping with prominent gay conservatives and telling the public about it. You think they would learn, stay away from Mike Jones, he kisses and tells.      I also wonder why Larry Craig would think sleeping around with other men would not eventually become known as public knowledge. Doesn't he know that both Republicans and Democrats in Idaho hate Gays? Doesn't he know that they are both arrogant of the issue and crucify you?     I also wonder why it is considered OK by the public for
 Dan Popkey to investigate and report on the sexuality of an person. Seems like an odd obsession.      Let me also point out, that lots and lots of conservative, liberal, and moderate men, including straight married men with children, occasionally have sexual relationships with younger men and women outside their marriage. I don't understand why it is news, and why we and their families got to read about. The fact that Larry Craig is bisexual, or gay, is not news, it is political assassination. It is public humiliation of Idaho and a man who has served this state and citizens for decades.       Best,     Donovan

Gray Tree Crab aka Big Bertha <gray.treecrab.aka.big.bertha at gmail.com> wrote:             Sunday, December 2, 2007
  Men allege having sex, encounters with Craig   Dan Popkey 
Idaho Statesman
December 2, 2007   BOISE – David Phillips. Mike Jones. Greg Ruth. Tom Russell.  Four gay men, willing to put their names in print and whose allegations can't be disproved, have come forward since news of U.S. Sen. Larry Craig's guilty plea. They say they had sex with Craig or that he made a sexual advance or paid them unusual attention.  They are telling their stories now
 because they are offended by Craig's denials, including his famous statement, "I am not gay. I never have been gay, " spoken on live national TV on Aug. 28.          
David Phillips is a 42-year-old information technology consultant in Washington, D.C., who says Craig picked him up at a gay club in 1986 and that they subsequently had sex.  Mike Jones is a former prostitute who told the world he had sex with the Rev. Ted Haggard last year. The former Colorado Springs evangelist at first denied it but eventually confessed. Jones says Craig paid him for sex in late 2004 or early 2005.  Greg Ruth was a 24-year-old college Republican in 1981 when he says he was hit on by Craig at a GOP meeting in Coeur d'Alene.  Tom Russell, 48, is a former Nampa resident who lives in Utah. Russell said his encounter with Craig occurred at Idaho's Bogus Basin Mountain Recreation Area in the
 early 1980s.  A fifth gay man, who is from Boise but who declined to be named for fear of retaliation, said he was in a men's restroom at Denver International Airport in September 2006 when the man in the next stall moved his hand slowly, palm up, under the divider. Alarmed, the man said he waited outside the restroom and then identified the man in the adjoining stall as Craig, whom he had met in Idaho.  Craig, 62, says he was a victim of "profiling" when he was arrested June 11 at Minneapolis-St. Paul International Airport on allegations of soliciting sex from an undercover police officer in an adjoining stall in a men's restroom. Craig pleaded guilty to disorderly conduct in August. He is appealing his conviction, financed by his 2008 re-election fund. Because of the scandal, Craig has said that after 33 years in state and national office, he will not seek re-election next year. Craig also faces a Senate Ethics Committee inquiry, which was requested
 by Senate GOP leadership.  In October 2006, Craig directly denied the claims of a blogger who reported he'd spoken with three anonymous sources who said they had sex with Craig.  In May 2007, after hearing a tape of an accuser who said he and Craig had sex in two men's restrooms at Washington, D.C.'s Union Station rail depot, Craig said, "I am not gay."   Craig declined comment on this story. He stopped replying to questions from the Statesman after the paper's Aug. 28 report that included the accounts of three unnamed men, one who said he had sex with Craig and two who said he solicited them for sex. But Craig's staff told other media the allegations by Phillips and Jones were false.David Phillips
  David Phillips' account was first published Oct. 25 at Wonkette.com, a liberal Web site. Shortly after The Spokesman-Review linked to the story on Oct.
 26, Craig spokesman Sid Smith replied on a blog that "there is not a shred of truth to this." In a tape-recorded interview with the Statesman, the 1985 graduate of Rice University said he met Craig on a weekday afternoon between May and August 1986 at a gay strip club called La Cage Aux Follies in Washington, D.C. Phillips said he mistakenly told Wonkette the incident happened in 1987.  Phillips, then 21, said he and Craig talked and then hugged. According to Phillips, Craig said he didn't feel comfortable at the club and suggested they leave. Phillips had his car, but Craig hailed a cab, with Phillips following him to Capitol Hill.   On the way to an upstairs bedroom, Phillips said Craig told him, "You've never been here. You don't know me." Phillips said Craig removed his suit coat but otherwise remained dressed.  He said Craig first performed oral sex on him, and that they then had anal sex. Afterward, Phillips said, Craig pressed
 Phillips to leave. He said Craig stuck $20 in his pocket and said, "I can buy and sell your ass a thousand times over. You were never here." Phillips said he saw a note card addressed to Suzanne Craig as he left the house. But he said he never recognized Craig as his sex partner until the recent story broke and he heard Craig's distinctive and formal voice on TV.  "I didn't hear that voice again until August," Phillips said. "Then that 'I can buy and sell your ass a thousand times' came back to me. It just all rolled back so vividly." Smith, the Craig spokesman, said in his blog posting after the Wonkette report that Phillips should not be believed because Craig did not live on Capitol Hill in 1987, but on his boat at the Capitol Yacht Club.Mike Jones
  Mike Jones, 50, told the Statesman Craig paid him $200 for sex on a night between November 2004 and March 2005. Jones said he recognized Craig only after August. 
 After Craig said on Oct. 4 that he would complete his term in 2009 and appeared on NBC on Oct. 16, Jones went on the record with the Statesman, describing a sexual encounter with Craig.   Jones told the Statesman in a tape-recorded interview that a man phoned to make an appointment, not giving his name. The man, whom Jones later recognized as Craig, then arrived at a studio apartment in downtown Denver. Craig asked whether Jones followed politics but then quickly changed the subject. Jones said he deduced that his client response was a politician.  Craig removed his coat and dress shirt, leaving his T-shirt, slacks and shoes on when he climbed onto Jones's massage table. Craig asked that Jones be naked. Craig undid his own zipper and masturbated while performing oral sex on Jones. When Craig finished, he paid Jones $200 and left.  Jones said he kept no records on his escort clients and that he advertised his "massage" services
 exclusively in gay publications.  Craig was in Denver on Feb. 11, 2005, and in nearby Keystone, Colo., on Feb. 12. On Feb. 12, he attended a meeting at the Keystone Center, a policy think tank. Craig's Senate travel records also show six other trips where Craig may have had layovers in Denver between November 2004 and March 2005.  Dan Whiting, a Craig spokesman, told TV station KIVI, "Mike Jones is lying in order to sell his book … plain and simple. Larry has never met Mike Jones."  Jones has written a book about his experience with Haggard, who resigned in November 2006 as president of the National Evangelical Association and was forced out as pastor of New Life Church after Jones came forward with voice mails. Greg Ruth
  Greg Ruth attended the Republican Western Roundup in Coeur d'Alene in October 1981, where he said Craig made a sexual advance. At the time, Craig was a 36-year-old bachelor and
 first-year congressman and Ruth was a 24-year-old college Republican from the University of Puget Sound.  Ruth, who is openly gay , told the Statesman in a tape-recorded interview that Craig paid him unusual attention at the political gathering.  Ruth said he excused himself to use the restroom, but that Craig soon entered and stood next to Ruth at the urinal, looking at Ruth's penis.  "He looked over and said, 'Hi,' " Ruth said. "But he didn't touch me or anything like that. And then after we finished urinating, we washed hands.  "He gave me his phone number and he said, 'If you ever get to D.C., call me. You can stay with me.' "  Ruth, now a professional photographer, said he never followed up and lost the slip of paper with Craig's number. But Ruth said he has no doubt Craig was making a sexual advance. "I'm gay, and I knew he was hitting on me," Ruth said. "There's no question about that."Unnamed man
  Another gay man, a 46-year-old professional from Boise, told the Statesman that Craig reached his hand into his restroom stall in September 2006 during a layover at the Denver airport. The man, who travels in political circles, had met Craig before. He asked that he not be named.  The man said he was flying from Boise to Washington, D.C., on the same flights as Craig and his wife.   During the layover in Denver, the man said, he was in a men's restroom stall when a hand came under the divider and reached toward him. The hand was palm up, as the officer in Minnesota also described, and slid toward him for two or three seconds. The man said he noticed unpolished, dark, lace-up shoes worn by the man in the next stall. He did not respond to the gesture.  The man said he then waited outside the men's restroom. Shortly after, a man wearing the shoes he saw in the adjacent stall exited. He recognized
 the man as Craig.  After boarding the second flight, the man told his partner about the incident. The partner confirmed to the Statesman having heard the details of Craig's advance that day.Tom Russell
  Tom Russell, 48, a Nampa native who lives in Utah, was among three men who contacted the Statesman about what they described as unusually attentive behavior on Craig's part. Russell spoke in a tape-recorded interview.  Russell worked as a food service manager at Bogus Basin ski resort and said his encounter probably occurred in the 1983-84 ski season. Russell had heard rumors Craig was gay.  Russell, who is openly gay, said he set out to engage Craig "and attempted to show a personal interest … not in a suggestive way … but a personal interest to see if he would respond."  "I recall that he was very delighted to talk to me – smiling, happy, very delighted – and that he had suggested
 that we could get together sometime," he said. Russell said he became convinced Craig was gay because he used subtle signals consistent with communication between gay men in public places.  Nothing came of the meeting, Russell said. But he came forward now because he is offended by Craig's denials.  "I'm disgusted because it's hypocritical, and he's lying. He's lying through his teeth. Heterosexual men do not behave like that."

Gray Tree Crab aka "Big Bertha" =======================================================
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