[Vision2020] Trinity Festival protest

Wed Aug 8 08:52:30 PDT 2007

I don't know if Orwell has a name for it, Gary, but as far as your assertions below:  Bollocks!You are unable to find Dickision's "Thine Eyes Shall Not Pity" article on Mosaic Law and its eventual application -- when Christians finally "take dominion over" all aspects of society in Jesus' name -- because Credenda has managed to muddy access to it via its website, and it counts on the fact that it preaches to a very small choir.  Go ahead and look it up.  If you find it, read it.  If you don't, why not publicly do what I did during my debate with Wilson last summer -- ask him directly a couple of yes or no questions.  Did he, as co-editor of C/A, publish an article calling for the exile or stoning of those who violated Mosaic Law?  And does he now, today, stand by the article?  Have fun, but don't expect a clear answer.  Asking me to rely on Doug Wilson's denial of Doug Wilson's behavior is a little like asking me to believe Dick Cheney's assertion that he, Dick Cheney, is a very kind man who loves his grandkids and, by the way, has the nation's best interest at heart, too.Gary, it puzzles me that an obviously intelligent man such as yourself would continue to swallow -- to borrow your phrasing -- the propaganda provided by Wilson and his empire of sycophants and knaves.  Take his article in the Daily News yesterday.  Does it matter one whit if he's a paleo- or a neo-Confederate to you, if his sympathies for the Confederacy extend to the defense of slavery, secession, and the support of "Southern Culture" aficionados that most thinking people would distance themselves from?  Do you take hairsplitting pedantics designed to exhaust and confuse critics and followers alike as an appropriate form of discussion?  Or do you expect a self-anointed man of chest, never mind man of God, to speak honestly and say what he believes -- with the expectation that some will loathe those beliefs and treat him badly because of the conduct resulting from them?When I first met Doug Wilson in May of 2002, I told him that he was not being persecuted, but that he was the object of scorn because he had behaved like an ass.   I told him that he was, as a Christian pastor, undoubtedly legally and perhaps even ethically entitled to do certain things, like write "The Serrated Edge," but that as a presumably mature disciple of Jesus, he had the moral, Scriptural obligation not to.  And, finally, I told him that I would endeavor to treat him fairly, asking him to point out specific errors I might make in critiquing his conduct and teaching.  He hasn't, and other than mocking me, his followers haven't either.  I have apologized directly and publicly when I've overstepped, but I'm not aware of any factual errors I've made.You may not like the fact that one man seems to be such a lightning rod in the community, and you clearly aren't terribly fond of me.  No matter.  But be honest and look at the evidence, not at the convoluted defense he offers in the spirit of candor but whose origin is entirely of the flesh.keely"Were I to be again reduced to the chains of slavery, next to that enslavement, I should regard being the slave of a religious master the greatest calamity that could befall me.  For of all slaveholders whom whom I have ever met, religious slaveholders were the worst.  I have ever found the meanest and basest, the most cruel and cowardly, of all others.  It was my unhappy lot not only to belong to a religious slaveholder, but to live in a community of such religionists."  Frederick Douglass, abolitionist, feminist, and former slaveFrom: jampot at roadrunner.comTo: kjajmix1 at msn.com; lfalen at turbonet.com; joekc at adelphia.netCC: vision2020 at moscow.comSubject: Re: [Vision2020] Trinity Festival protestDate: Wed, 8 Aug 2007 08:07:19 -0700

Ms. Mix piously proclaims:

"Christ Church has been, on the 
one hand, terribly reticent to discuss its views on the death penalty for 
homosexuals, adulterers, and the like, and yet, on the other hand, quite proud 
of its call for such in the pages of Credenda/Agenda."

This is complete and utter hogwash, a classic case of tell 
the lies often enough, loud enough, and with adequate doe eyed sincerity and it 
will, hopefully, they will become fact.

Before swallowing Mix, Campbell, Schou, and others of 
their ilk's breathless assertions one would be well advised to go to the source 
and review what has actually been said. Since Ms. Mix mentions Credenda/Agenda 
one might do well to start there. Please see Volume 16 number 2. The 
entire issue is devoted to the topic and nowhere will you see any evidence of 
the claims made by CC's usual antagonists. After dealing with that 
disappointment one might go to Doug Wilson's own personnel blog and read entries 
on 06/01/05 and 08/30/05, the latter specifically and in detail speaking to the 
ridiculous notion expressed by our resident propagandists. And finally for the 
reading challenged, one can listen to Wilson in his very own voice speak to the 
topic on the Cannon Press CD "The Sin of Homophobia" lecture C 
03/31/04.

Ms. Mix must be using Campbell's lexicon in 
which "pretty much" means not at all and determined that "terribly 
reticent to discuss" equals speaks to the subject exhaustively. Didn't 
Orwell have a name for this?

g

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: 
  keely emerinemix 

  To: lfalen ; Joe Campbell 
  Cc: vision2020 at moscow.com 
  Sent: Tuesday, August 07, 2007 7:02 
  PM
  Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Trinity 
  Festival protest
  No, Roger, that's what most Christian churches 
  say.Christ Church has been, on the one hand, terribly reticent to 
  discuss its views on the death penalty for homosexuals, adulterers, and the 
  like, and yet, on the other hand, quite proud of its call for such in the 
  pages of Credenda/Agenda.  Perhaps you ought to ask Greg Dickison, Esq., 
  a Christ Church attender, C/A writer, and attorney, on his thoughts regarding 
  "love the sinner, hate the sin."Because my eye shall not pity those 
  who refuse to believe that this group not only believes these things, but is 
  less than honest in acknowledging it as well.  And if you wonder about 
  the odd phrasing of "my eye shall not pity," well, gee -- maybe Mr. Dickison 
  could explain it to you.keely"Were I to be again 
  reduced to the chains of slavery, next to that enslavement, I should regard 
  being the slave of a religious master the greatest calamity that could befall 
  me.  For of all slaveholders whom whom I have ever met, religious 
  slaveholders re the worst.  I have ever found the meanest and basest, the 
  most cruel and cowardly, of all others.  It was my unhappy lot not only 
  to belong to a religious slaveholder, but to live in a community of such 
  religionists."  Frederick Douglass, abolitionist, feminist, and former 
  slave> 
  Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2007 15:45:30 -0700> From: lfalen at turbonet.com> 
  To: joekc at adelphia.net> CC: vision2020 at moscow.com> Subject: Re: 
  [Vision2020] Trinity Festival protest> > Joe > There is a 
  difference between saying that it is bibiblically justified and saying that 
  they recommend it in today's society.> My understanding is that they 
  think it is a sin but also say hate the sin, love the sinner.> 
  Roger> -----Original message-----> From: Joe Campbell 
  joekc at adelphia.net> Date: Tue, 07 Aug 2007 13:55:20 -0700> To: 
  lfalen lfalen at turbonet.com> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Trinity Festival 
  protest> > > Roger,> > > > Maybe you 
  missed Andreas's last post, which makes the point clearer. > > He 
  writes (to Gary):> > > > "I just find it utterly, 
  gobsmackingly amazing, Gary, that you would> > demand the admittance 
  of people who espouse killing gays into a> > gay-focused club. I 
  don't think that warrants any more than a single> > 
  sentence."> > > > Don't you think that there is reason to 
  exclude a group which as explicitly > > admitted that the killing of 
  gays and lesbians is biblically justified from a> > meeting run by 
  gays and lesbians?> > > > How much threatening abuse 
  should this group have to tolerate, on your > > understanding of 
  rights?> > > > --> > Joe Campbell> > 
  > > ---- lfalen <lfalen at turbonet.com> wrote: > > 
  > > =============> > Andreas> > You are trying 
  to compare apples and orange. A private club operating on private property and 
  supported by private funds can admit or prohibit anyone they want. A group 
  that is sponsored by a government enity, meets on government property, and is 
  supported by taxpayers should be open to anyone who wants to attend, so long 
  as they are not disruptive. Just being present is not disruptive.They 
  obviously can not vote on any issue unless they are members. They can speak if 
  recognized by the chair.> > Roger> > -----Original 
  message-----> > From: "Andreas Schou" ophite at gmail.com> > 
  Date: Mon, 06 Aug 2007 21:24:31 -0700> > To: "g. crabtree" 
  jampot at roadrunner.com> > Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Trinity Festival 
  protest> > > > > > Two standards? Yes for two 
  distinctly different situations.> > > > > > Oh, I 
  see, Gary. So, for instance, you would be in favor of this> > > 
  Christian fraternity being forced to admit Jews, Muslims, atheists, et> 
  > > al.> > > > > > 
  http://chronicle.com/news/article/2666/christian-fraternity-sues-u-of-florida-over-denial-of-recognition> 
  > > > > > Right? Because that's what would be consistent, 
  right?> > > > > > -- ACS> > > > 
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