[Vision2020] Fwd: Seriously, this time

[debismith at moscow.com]

Welcome, Walter-by-any-name. I am glad you have decided to enter the fray.

I have always used my real name here. It has, indeed, caused a few problems for me. 
However, I have nothing to hide, and will apologize when I am wrong, and take credit for calling 
a damn fool a damn fool... I decided long ago that outing myself first, for whatever others might 
not like, was better than those who dislike me looking for the dirt.  

I also understand the unwillingness some feel to subject themselves to the viciousness the V 
can exhibit.(Freely admitting here I can be pretty darn vicious on occasion). I have been 
harrassed at work--reported to my boss for having an opinion...oh, gasp! As if they didn't know I 
was opinionated on hire! I have been reported to the Unitarian Church---don't quite get that one 
as I'm not a Unitarian. Been called a Witch---well, so damn what. I am a self-identified Wiccan. 
Have been called baby murderer for saying women need reproductive choice. Have been called 
a shrill, unloved, blasphemous harpy because I'm not in agreement with a particular take on 
the world-as-it-should-be. Ask me if I care. Have been called a hairy-nippled dyke (and that's 
necessarily a bad thing? Why?) for standing up for my queer friends. Have been called a racist 
for not identifying White Folk as victimized by Those People.

Generally, though, those who have personally attacked me have come off looking like idiots, as 
I have nothing for which to be ashamed.  Eleanor Roosevelt.....Now that woman had it right!

Rant aside, Welcome, and keep posting. We need a few new folks! The same twelve get pretty 
predictable....
Debi R-S



Date sent:      	Sat, 14 Apr 2007 16:40:14 -0700
From:           	"Walter Smith" <don.nergal at gmail.com>
To:             	vision2020 at moscow.com
Subject:        	[Vision2020] Fwd:  Seriously, this time

Thanks Andreas,

I would first like to applaud your courage in posting to this forum
under your own name, courage I lack. Most posters on here display a
similar courage, and I thank all of you regardless of my own
cowardice. Yet this matter, along with the Archies issue, convinced me
of the need to respond here, despite my burning desire to not be
associated with vision2020.

There has been much talk about double-standards recently, largely
prompted by the Imus idiocy. Many don't seem to realize, though, that
double-standards cut both ways. If we seek to repair the damage done
to this country, we cannot forsake the foundation upon which it was
built. Disregarding any apologetic jargon about the founding fathers
and their personal beliefs; the simple and true root of our great
nation and it's success, is the basic supposition that all people are
created/born equal. To deny anyone, American or otherwise, white or
otherwise, rich or otherwise, the fundamental rights afforded the
peoples of our nation; is to deny America itself. Any right we would
deprive someone else of, is a right we do not ourselves deserve.

As to the Archies issue, which I have not yet addressed... Mr. Johnson
himself admitted that it was not the protest (as mis-guided, and
thin-skined as it was) that drove him under. It was rather a long
standing lack of patronage, apparently due in large part to a lack of
adequate parking. Given who's feet that the parking issue can be laid
upon, I am very surprised that J Ford (and many others) have blamed
the paranoid overly sensitive caretaker, rather than the true
culprits.

While my "serious" post has not garnered much response, on vision2020
or off, my first "comedic" post has resulted in quite a number of
"off-line" retorts. Many of these are amazingly offensive, but none so
far threatening. I am gathering up the "juicy" bits, and will be
posting them here soon. It is amazing what some people will say when
there is no accountability (perhaps myself included). Think of them as
a skin-thickness test.

Sincerely,
Anon

P.S. my name is not Walter (nor Smith, Don, or Nergal), please feel
free to address me in whatever way you find appropriate.

On 4/14/07, Andreas Schou <ophite at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Walter --
>
> I've got to agree. Normally, J Ford is perfectly reasonable, but
> this one-woman windmill-tilting crusade against Javon Butler (and
> through him, all black Americans) is seriously off-kilter. What's
> up, J?
>
> -- ACS
>
> On 4/14/07, Walter Smith <don.nergal at gmail.com> wrote:
> > While my last post was entirely a jest, this one is not. I am
> > indeed
> hiding
> > behind a cloak of anonymity, since this forum seems to nothing but
> destroy
> > those willing to talk, and I have no suicide wish. Take my
> > comments with
> as
> > big a grain of salt as you feel necessary.
> >
> > I do consider myself a liberal, and while I find the filth spewing
> > forth
>
> > from "Tony" (aka FingerElbowSpace) and his ilk disgusting and
> un-American,
> > the recent hate flowing from J Ford (whom I usually agree with) is
> > truly foul. I had never heard of "Javon Butler" before this
> > fracas, as I care nothing for college sports. But the calls from J
> > Ford to deny this man
> the
> > justice (albeit imperfect) that out system grants is beyond the
> > pale,
> never
> > have I heard such a disgusting tirade. It is particularly
> > disgusting due
> to
> > the obvious (to everyone else) racism embodied in her posts, and
> > the
> clear
> > fact that she actually believes what she is saying, and sees
> > nothing
> wrong
> > with it. I can't even recall such filth from the arians that used
> > to be around here, and they were the worst of the worst.
> >
> > What Don Imus did was wrong, much of the reaction to what he did
> > is
> wrong,
> > and much of the reaction to that reaction is wrong. But how does
> > the injustice against him justify denying justice to another?.
> >
> > I have no idea if Javon is guilty, I wasn't there. I know none of
> > the
> people
> > involved, and have no reason to believe one party over the other.
> > If the
>
> > courts find Javon guilty, I won't argue; if they don't, I won't
> > argue.
> This
> > is what our justice system is for, to do everything possible to
> > learn
> the
> > truth. Whatever happened to innocent until proven guilty? Could
> > anything
>
> > possibly be more un-American?
> >
> > Unless Javon is a clear and present danger to others (which I
> > cannot
> imagine
> > him being, with all the attention currently focused on him), what
> > reason could there be for denying him the rights afforded to
> > everyone (non-celebrity, admittedly) else? Is it just because he
> > is black, and
> has
> > been accused by a white man? What, exactly, is wrong with letting
> > the process take it's course?
> >
> > Sincerely,
> > Anon
> >
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