[Vision2020] Amazonian Deforestation and Global Warming:Was:Ed theViking, Greenland, and Global Warming

Wed Apr 4 08:49:05 PDT 2007

Just a brief note to clarify a recent posting of mine:  When I described the left's view of humanity as the root of all evil, I was not referring to original sin, but to the contemporary view that our effect on this planet is always negative.  It also seems to be the left's position that our effects on each other are predominantly negative.  

As to the first point:  As the climate has changed time and time again, over millions of years, from extremes of hot and cold, wet and dry, we are advised that we are now responsible for this most recent shift in temperatures.  Our effect is negative.  When loggers cut trees to provide shelter, it devastates habitat.  But when loggers reforest, or home owners plant trees, these activities are never weighed into the equation.  Our effect is always characterized as negative or destructive.  I remember a fascinating experience as I was attempting, some 12 years ago, to help my toddler play Microsoft's "Dangerous Creatures" "educational" software.  The opening screen held what looked like a calendar, with a different toothed beast in each box; lions, tigers, bears, wolves.  I was struck by the inclusion in this collage of a diaper clad human infant!  Curious, I clicked on this image meant for young children, and was advised that the human being was the most destructive species on the planet, being responsible for the destruction of this that and the other thing.   Well.  Quite a message to teach our young, wouldn't you say?  And we wonder why their self esteem is at times lacking.  It is this type of hostile, self-loathing posture of today's liberals toward humanity that I meant to refer to.

As to our effect on each other, the war in Iraq provides a glaring example.  The left views the conflict through the above template, peaceable little country being overrun by resource hungry, imperialistic behemoth with no regard for human rights.  Destruction right and left, wholesale torture and death even among the civilian population.  A closer, less hyperventilating examination reveals that examples of torture are VERY sporadic, and the uncondoned actions of a few idiots, not official policy.  Further inspection reveals that we are in fact engaged in a number of humanitarian activities, building schools and providing infrastructure, etc.  Contrary to the left wing view that all Iraqis long for our defeat and removal, it becomes apparent that in fact 97 some percent of them are tickled to have us there and embrace the recent changes.  One learns that we are fighting the other 3% who are in many cases Saddam loyalists and those sponsored by Syria and others to shoot at American troops in exchange for cash.  This reality was most recently confirmed by my discussion of our Iraqi policy with a recently discharged, JASOC sniper with many hours of experience in Cambodia, Iraq and Aphghanistan whom I encountered while scouting the woods around St,. Maries.

I simply wish to suggest to liberals that perhaps human beings are capable of some good, at least every once in a while.   That we are not doomed to devastate our environment and die, piteously wailing for more, without the benevolent guidance of the anointed.

Later,

-Tony

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Nick Gier 
  To: vision2020 at moscow.com 
  Sent: Saturday, March 31, 2007 10:00 AM
  Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Amazonian Deforestation and Global Warming:Was:Ed theViking, Greenland, and Global Warming

  Good Morning Visionaries:

  A very serious allegation has been leveled against presumably all doctoral committees in the world: to wit, that Ph.D. candidates must conform to a "left-wing" agenda, curiously defined as "humanity is the root of all evil."  

  There is a delicious irony in this ludicrous hypothesis: all theses done at conservative Christian schools that use Luther's or Calvin's doctrine of human depravity would have to be declared "left-wing."

  Unless the person can support such a comprehensive and breath taking claim, I think we can all be safe in assuming that U. S. doctoral committees hold their students to the highest objective standards for which our graduate schools are world famous.

  Looking back at my 1973 dissertation on Martin Heidegger, who was the first Nazi rector at Freiburg University, I'm at a loss how either I or my committee could have had a "left-wing" agenda.

  Nick Gier

  At 08:39 AM 3/31/2007, you wrote:

    Ted makes an important point about the political pressures faced by scientists in an academic environment which encourages if not enforces conformity to conventional wisdom.  The resulting group think is hardly conducive to flushing out truth from prejudice and presumption. In such an environment where one's doctoral thesis if it is to be accepted, must tow the left wing, humanity is the root of all evil paradigm, it is obvious how an aspiring scholar might be tempted to slant her research to please those who hold her future in their hands.

    The university is alleged to be a place where a variety of views are thoughtfully considered if not embraced.

    Would that it were so.

    -T

      ----- Original Message ----- 

      From: Ted Moffett 

      To: nickgier at adelphia.net 

      Cc: vision2020 at moscow.com 

      Sent: Thursday, March 29, 2007 2:16 PM

      Subject: [Vision2020] Amazonian Deforestation and Global Warming:Was:Ed theViking, Greenland, and Global Warming

      Nick et. al.

      I'm not sure you should defer to my research on methane and other global warming impacts of livestock, given the complexity and room for error on such a difficult subject.  But this interesting analysis that can be read in pdf form at the web link below, that in part examines cattle raising impacts on the Amazon rain forest, might shed light on this issue. 

      I cannot vouch for the correctness of the data and conclusions from this study presented in 1996, especially given the rapid rate of change in that area of the world, indeed, all over our planet.  However, this paper reveals the daunting complexity of environmental studies, while demonstrating the exacting and sobering work that constitutes the day to day efforts of most scientists, who usually don't have the inclination to politicise their work, despite the claims of many that the hundreds of scientists gathering data on global warming have an agenda to slant their conclusions towards alarmism on human induced global warming.  

      Given that scientists sometimes face political, career, or economic pressures to slant their work, defending the independence of the community of scientists to present their findings without these pressures biasing their efforts, is fundamental if the public is to be accurately informed of major scientific developments that can significantly impact the world at large, such as climate change from human activity. 

      Recently on C-SPAN testimony of NASA climate scientist James Hansen before the US Congress was presented.  He mentioned that he thought the censorship of his scientific conclusions regarding human impacts on global warming, by the Bush administration, was akin to the censorship of science in the former Soviet Union.  

      http://philip.inpa.gov.br/publ_livres/Preprints/1996/REPLACE-FEM.pdf 

      -----

      Ted Moffett

      On 3/15/07, nickgier at adelphia.net <nickgier at adelphia.net> wrote: 

        Greetings:

        I've not seen this message in my in-box, so I'm sending it again.

        I just wanted to verify that my source on methane release from livestock was from the UN's FAO report that Megan cited. 

        However, I respect Ted's research and reasoning skills and I would be happy to defer to his judgment on this issue since he has done more research on this than anyone on this list.

        Thanks, Ted, for making it clear that raising beef cattle, no matter how they fart, is a terribly inefficient and enviornmentally disastrous way of getting the protein that we need. 

        Nick Gier

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     List services made available by First Step Internet, 
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  "Truth is the summit of being; justice is the application of it to human affairs."
  --Ralph Waldo Emerson

  "Abstract truth has no value unless it incarnates in human beings who represent it, by proving their readiness to die for it."
   --Mohandas Gandhi

  "Modern physics has taught us that the nature of any system cannot be discovered by dividing it into its component parts and studying each part by itself. . . .We must keep our attention fixed on the whole and on the interconnection between the parts. The same is true of our intellectual life. It is impossible to make a clear cut between science, religion, and art. The whole is never equal simply to the sum of its various parts." --Max Planck

  Nicholas F. Gier
  Professor Emeritus, Department of Philosophy, University of Idaho
  1037 Colt Rd., Moscow, ID 83843
  http://users.adelphia.net/~nickgier/home.htm
  208-882-9212/FAX 885-8950
  President, Idaho Federation of Teachers, AFL-CIO
  http://users.adelphia.net/~nickgier/ift.htm

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