[Vision2020] You're Doing One Heckufa Job on the Economy, Bushie!
keely emerinemix
kjajmix1 at msn.com
Sun Sep 24 18:19:45 PDT 2006
I don't think Wayne is saying that profit is bad, jobs float down from the
heavens utterly apart from the realities of profit-and-loss statements and
labor markets, or that everything we've learned about economics is wrong. I
think his point is simply that success in small business often looks
different in one scenario and entirely different in another and that an
unfettered, values-bereft free market is not necessarily a good thing. I
agree with him on that.
And yes, I know something about business, being married to a man who owned a
very successful one for two decades before we moved out here. But I also
know that our particular experience is just that -- ours -- and while it
proves some of the tenets of free-market economics, it certainly allows for
other, different, and equally valid scenarios for other businesses and the
people who run them.
keely
From: "Dick Sherwin" <rvrcowboy at clearwire.net>
To: "Vision2020" <vision2020 at moscow.com>, "Art Deco" <deco at moscow.com>
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] You're Doing One Heckufa Job on the
Economy,Bushie!
Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2006 18:02:22 -0700
I used to own a sporting goods retail business so I do have some knowledge
of what it takes for a business to survive in the real world. I sold it out
in 1991.
I don't believe it is necessary for me to point out the ignorance of your
post, point by point except to say I sure would have liked to have found
someone like you, willing to work for me, for no profit for a few years
while I was getting established.
Dick S
----- Original Message -----
From: "Art Deco" <deco at moscow.com>
To: "Vision 2020" <vision2020 at moscow.com>
Sent: Sunday, September 24, 2006 4:13 PM
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] You're Doing One Heckufa Job on the
Economy,Bushie!
> Dick,
>
> Perhaps with your great erudition you can point out point by point the
> ignorance and/or the mistakes in the post so that we can all learn and
> benefit from your boundless wisdom.
>
> W.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Dick Sherwin" <rvrcowboy at clearwire.net>
> To: "Vision2020" <vision2020 at moscow.com>; "Art Deco" <deco at moscow.com>
> Sent: Sunday, September 24, 2006 3:46 PM
> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] You're Doing One Heckufa Job on the
> Economy,Bushie!
>
>
> > Without a doubt, this has to be one of the most ignorant posts I have
ever
> > read here in the vision. You go Wayne!!
> >
> > Dick S
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Art Deco" <deco at moscow.com>
> > To: "Vision 2020" <vision2020 at moscow.com>
> > Sent: Sunday, September 24, 2006 8:59 AM
> > Subject: Re: [Vision2020] You're Doing One Heckufa Job on the
> > Economy,Bushie!
> >
> >
> >> Many small businesses thrive with little or no profit (profit =
income -
> >> expenses*). However, they do provide income for employed family
members
> >> and others in the form of wages, benefits, etc (all part of
*expenses).
> >> Some go on like this for years. Hence, making is a profit is not
> >> necessarily a requirement for a successful business. However, it best
> >> not
> >> to incur losses.
> >>
> >> Losses do not necessarily mean that a business is a complete failure,
> >> either. Even if a business eventually goes out of existence, they
have
> >> provided jobs and benefits for their owners/employees, income for
their
> >> vendors, etc as well as having provided goods/services to the
community.
> >>
> >> So when someone makes the over-simplified, ignorance laden statement
that
> >> "Without profit, there are no jobs, without jobs there are no pay
checks,
> >> except for those who are on entitlement programs" one is again sadly
> >> reminded that no matter how hard we try to provide a decent education
for
> >> all, there are bound to be some failures in this attempt.
> >>
> >>
> >> Don't get me wrong, I have no objection to businesses making a fair
> > profit.
> >> I am not against enterprise, fair/ legal competition, and individual
> >> initiative, but strongly for it as I have benefited directly from
such.
> >>
> >> I am against the belief that enterprise should be left without reins
and
> >> unregulated and its effects debated without reference to the
consequences
> > to
> >> the totality of the milieu in which it operates or proposes to
operate.
> >> Only a fool would believe that unfettered enterprise is healthy and
> >> wonderful, even if that fool only read a newspaper once in their
lives.
> >> There is room for rational debate about how much regulation is needed
> >> generally and in specific cases.
> >>
> >> What I object to in this thread so far is the over-simplification of a
> > very
> >> complex issue. In the case of some of the participants, this
> >> over-simplification is the result of ignorance and congenital
dumbness.
> >> With others, business people who should know better, it is a dishonest
> >> attempt to obscure the issues and to smear those not in agreement
without
> >> having to resort to facts or rational argument.
> >>
> >> W.
> >>
> >>
> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> From: "Dick Sherwin" <rvrcowboy at clearwire.net>
> >> To: "Vision2020" <vision2020 at moscow.com>; "Kai Eiselein, editor"
> >> <editor at lataheagle.com>
> >> Sent: Friday, September 22, 2006 4:09 PM
> >> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] You're Doing One Heckufa Job on the
> >> Economy,Bushie!
> >>
> >>
> >> > You are correct, Kai. Business is not only about making a profit,
it
> >> > is
> >> > imperative that business make a profit. Without profit, there are
no
> >> > jobs,
> >> > without jobs there are no pay checks, except for those who are on
> >> > entitlement programs.
> >> >
> >> > Only a true socialist would put down business for making a profit.
> > Hence,
> >> > the prattling of Nick Gier.
> >> >
> >> > Dick S
> >> > ----- Original Message -----
> >> > From: "Kai Eiselein, editor" <editor at lataheagle.com>
> >> > To: <nickgier at adelphia.net>; <vision2020 at moscow.com>
> >> > Sent: Friday, September 22, 2006 10:50 AM
> >> > Subject: Re: [Vision2020] You're Doing One Heckufa Job on the
> >> > Economy,Bushie!
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >> Ummmmm, productivity has gone in profits, not wages....... Last
time
I
> >> > checked business was about making profit..... Which is good, because
> > thats
> >> > what PAYS WAGES! yeeesh Nick
> >> >>
> >> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> >> From: vision2020-bounces at moscow.com
> >> >> [mailto:vision2020-bounces at moscow.com]On Behalf Of
> > nickgier at adelphia.net
> >> >> Sent: Friday, September 22, 2006 10:38 AM
> >> >> To: vision2020 at moscow.com
> >> >> Subject: [Vision2020] You're Doing One Heckufa Job on the Economy,
> >> >> Bushie!
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> Greetings:
> >> >>
> >> >> I decided to get my radio commentary out of the way early this
week,
> >> >> so
> >> > that I can work on my book on religious violence. This is the
longer
> >> > version.
> >> >>
> >> >> Thanks, Saundra, for saving me the trouble of trying to switch to
> >> > Time-Warner. I don't want a RoadRunner e-mail address, but on
second
> >> > thought, it might help me outwit the witless coyotes down the hill.
> >> >>
> >> >> YOU'RE DOING ONE HECKUFA JOB ON THE ECONOMY, BUSHIE!
> >> >>
> >> >> Nick Gier, Professor Emeritus, University of Idaho
> >> >>
> >> >> Note: BLS stands for Bureau of Labor Statistics
> >> >>
> >> >> President Bush keeps telling us that the economy is growing, but
"The
> >> >> Wall
> >> > Street Journal" reported (3/27/06) that most of that productivity
has
> > gone
> >> > into profits not wages. A "The New York Times" editorial explains:
> > "Wages
> >> > and salaries now make up the lowest proportion of the economy since
> > 1947,
> >> > while corporate profits have climbed to their highest since the
1960s"
> >> > (8/29/06).
> >> >>
> >> >> Worker productivity has gone up 18.4 percent, but wages are down,
so
> > any
> >> > additional income has obviously gone to the rich, not the poor and
> > middle
> >> > class. The poverty rate has gone up 17 percent since 2000. Those in
> > deep
> >> > poverty—$7,800 for a family of three—number the highest since
1975,
> >> > when
> >> > such surveys began.
> >> >>
> >> >> During the 1950s and 1960s, median household incomes doubled, but
> >> >> since
> >> > 1979, the lower classes have experienced no wage increase at all,
while
> >> > middle class income has increased by a mere $200 per year. In stark
> >> > contrast, the top 1 percent of Americans has enjoyed a 111.3 percent
> > raise
> >> > (Rocky Mt. News, 5/2/06). The Census Bureau reports that median
family
> >> > income for those 25-34 has dropped 5.9 percent during the Bush
> >> > administration.
> >> >>
> >> >> Bush also brags about the low unemployment rate, but there are many
> >> > important qualifiers. The rate is actually 10 percent higher than
when
> > he
> >> > took office, and the number unemployed longer than 26 weeks has
climbed
> > 57
> >> > percent (BLS, 7/7/06). Many have simply dropped out of the job
market,
> >> > because there are 1.7 percent fewer people working now than in April
> > 2000.
> >> >>
> >> >> Three million manufacturing jobs have been lost (BLS, 7/7/06) to
new
> > jobs
> >> > in the service sector and other low paying positions, half of which
are
> >> > part-time and offer no benefits (LA Times, 7/24/06). Bush has the
> >> > worst
> >> > job
> >> > growth record since the Great Depression (BLS, 7/7/06). Excluding
> >> > farming,
> >> > 22.7 million jobs were created during the Clinton years, while only
2.3
> >> > million have come on line under Bush.
> >> >>
> >> >> Entry level wages for college graduates have fallen 4 percent over
the
> >> > last five years—7.3 percent for men and 3.5 percent for
women—the
first
> >> > decline in 30 years. Health coverage for this same group has fallen
by
> >> > 7
> >> > percent. Health insurance premiums have risen 71 percent over the
same
> >> > period, making it more likely that these young families will be
faced
> > with
> >> > bankrupting medical bills. In 2005 1.3 million more Americans were
> >> > without
> >> > health coverage for a total of 46.5 million.
> >> >>
> >> >> Apartment rents and house prices have climbed steeply. The American
> > dream
> >> > of owning your own home is now just that for many young Americans.
The
> >> > housing affordability index is at its lowest since 1987. With house
> > values
> >> > dropping and interest rates rising, recent home owners, who were
> >> > seduced
> >> > by
> >> > no down payments and adjustable rate mortgages, may soon find that
they
> >> > owe
> >> > much more on their mortgages than their homes are worth.
> >> >>
> >> >> Americans have always had the lowest savings rate in the world.
Now
> > this
> >> > rate has gone into the negative, which means that we are spending
more
> >> > than
> >> > we earn. People under the age of 35 are spending a whopping 16
percent
> >> > more
> >> > than they take in. In 2005 Americans had the worst ratio of
household
> > and
> >> > mortgage debt to disposable income in 25 years. We are also buying
more
> >> > goods from other countries than we are exporting. In 2005 the trade
> >> > deficit
> >> > reached $726 billion, twice the size of 2001, due in large part to
> > imports
> >> > from China.
> >> >>
> >> >> Because of Bush's tax breaks, the total national debt has increased
$3
> >> > trillion in 5 years, a 54 percent increase, beating Reagan's record
of
> >> > $1.6
> >> > trillion in 8 years. China, Japan, and other countries also hold
$1.2
> >> > trillion of our national debt, and they could decide to unload those
> >> > bounds
> >> > at any time. Because of the declining value of the dollar, OPEC
> > countries
> >> > could also decide to price their oil in stronger euros instead of
> >> > weaker
> >> > dollars.
> >> >>
> >> >> As economist Jayati Ghosh states: "The U. S. public merrily
continues
> > to
> >> > spend its way through the rest of the world's savings," borrowing
$600
> >> > billion alone in 2005. The American grasshoppers' long summer of
> >> > overconsumption will eventually end, and the world's ants, some of
them
> >> > putting away 30 percent of their income, will come out on top.
> >> >>
> >> >> Europeans stood firmly with us after 9/11, assuming that the U. S.
> > would
> >> > seek a multilateral solution to terrorism, but now 71 percent of
them
> >> > believe that Bush is the greatest threat to world peace. Many
> >> > Americans
> >> > now
> >> > have good reason to believe that Bush's domestic policies are
> > undermining
> >> > their financial security and their children's economic future.
> >> >>
> >> >> Way to go, Bushie!
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> =======================================================
> >> >> List services made available by First Step Internet,
> >> >> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
> >> >> http://www.fsr.net
> >> >> mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
> >> >> =======================================================
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> __________ NOD32 1.1767 (20060921) Information __________
> >> >>
> >> >> This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system.
> >> >> http://www.eset.com
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> =======================================================
> >> >> List services made available by First Step Internet,
> >> >> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
> >> >> http://www.fsr.net
> >> >> mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
> >> >> =======================================================
> >> >>
> >> >
> >> > =======================================================
> >> > List services made available by First Step Internet,
> >> > serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
> >> > http://www.fsr.net
> >> > mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
> >> > =======================================================
> >> >
> >>
> >> =======================================================
> >> List services made available by First Step Internet,
> >> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
> >> http://www.fsr.net
> >> mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
> >> =======================================================
> >>
> >
>
> =======================================================
> List services made available by First Step Internet,
> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
> http://www.fsr.net
> mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
> =======================================================
>
=======================================================
List services made available by First Step Internet,
serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
http://www.fsr.net
mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
=======================================================
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