[Vision2020] [Bulk] Re: Innocent Man Sent to Syria and Tortured

Paul Rumelhart godshatter at yahoo.com
Thu Sep 21 08:33:48 PDT 2006

In your "rape suspect" scenario, I wouldn't blame them at all for 
arresting me and taking me to jail.  I would blame them considerably for 
not using the court system, though, which is where most of this 
criticism is coming from.  We're keeping detainees for years without 
access to the court system.  Sure a few of them have been sent before 
"tribunals" where they don't get to even see the evidence that the 
government has against them.  We're getting away with torturing them for 
information because they have no access to the court systems.  Now we're 
sending them to countries where we know they will be tortured without 
going through the courts.

Doesn't it strike you as odd that they are so afraid of the court system 
that they will go so far out of their way to avoid it?  Now they are 
attempting to change the laws so that when this whole mess breaks they 
won't be charged with war crimes.  I hope this country isn't stupid 
enough to let them.


Donovan Arnold wrote:

> I think we have to think about this for a moment. Obviously, nobody is 
> justifying torture.
> However, I don't think the United States just randomly picked on a 
> guy. This guy flew into NY City on Sept. 26, 2002. That was just after 
> the anniversary of  September 11, 2001. The guy fit the profile of the 
> those that flew the airplanes, and they received a phone call from the 
> country he just came from saying to stop him because he was a 
> terrorist and was communicating with Bin Laudin and had a plane ticket 
> to visit a middle eastern country linked to terrorists. He also  was 
> not a native born Westerner but Middle Easterner. 
> The guy happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time matching 
> the description of someone the authorities were looking for. He had a 
> really bad stroke of luck. 
> If you happened to be going for a midnight walk to get some fresh air 
> and a man matching your description, height, weight, hair and eye 
> color, and wearing the same thing as you, just raped a woman ten 
> blocks away , and a witness fingered you as "That's the guy!" to a 
> police officer, could you blame the officers for taking you in?
> What happened after that was upsetting. But let us be realistic about 
> this and how the world works.
> Best,
> _DJA
> */Dick Sherwin <rvrcowboy at clearwire.net>/* wrote:
>     As I understand this story, the U.S. depended on Canadian
>     officials as to the status of this "Innocent Man" and he was
>     deported to Syria based on information from Canada.  Is this true,
>     or am I wrong? 
>     At any rate, mistakes do happen and perhaps the U.S. officials
>     should have checked out the validity of the claims by the Canadian
>     Immigration people more closely.  I am sure that Ted and Joe would
>     have made sure, beyond the word of officials of this guy's own
>     government, that he should not have been deported to Syria. 
>     Point being, we have all heard the story now boys.  You can stop
>     trying to make it appear the United States purposefully exiled an
>     innocent man to a country where our government knew he would be
>     beaten and mistreated.  I know it is difficult for you both to
>     just let such an opportunity drop but, believe me, it is no longer
>     current news.  Get over it.
>     Dick S
>         ----- Original Message -----
>         *From:* Ted Moffett <mailto:starbliss at gmail.com>
>         *To:* Joe Campbell <mailto:joekc at adelphia.net>
>         *Cc:* Vision 2020 <mailto:vision2020 at moscow.com>
>         *Sent:* Wednesday, September 20, 2006 10:25 AM
>         *Subject:* Re: [Vision2020] Innocent Man Sent to Syria and
>         Tortured
>         Joe et. al.
>         Of course not.
>         What do you call those who seize an innocent man, kidnap
>         him to a foreign nation against his will beyond help, deny him
>         access to review of his imprisonment by any court or judge or
>         any resemblance to the fundamental legal protections of habeas
>         corpus, beat him, interrogate him, and take a year of his life
>         away?
>         Defenders of freedom! 
>         http://www.lectlaw.com/def/h001.htm
>         In Brown v. Vasquez, 952 F.2d 1164, 1166 (9th Cir. 1991),
>         cert. denied, 112 S.Ct. 1778 (1992), the court observed that
>         the Supreme Court has "recognized the fact that`[t]he writ of
>         habeas corpus is the fundamental instrument for safeguarding
>         individual freedom against arbitrary and lawless state
>         action.' Harris v. Nelson, 394 U.S. 286, 290-91 (1969). "
>         Therefore, the writ must be "administered with the initiative
>         and flexibility essential to insure that miscarriages of
>         justice within its reach are surfaced and corrected." Harris,
>         394 U.S. at 291.
>         Ted Moffett
>         On 9/19/06, *Joe Campbell* <joekc at adelphia.net
>         <mailto:joekc at adelphia.net>> wrote:
>             Careful, Ted! You don't want anyone to think that you're
>             supporting terrorists with this post, do you?
>             Best, Joe
>             ---- Ted Moffett <starbliss at gmail.com
>             <mailto:starbliss at gmail.com>> wrote:
>             =============
>             http://articles.news.aol.com/news/_a/innocent-man-sent-to-syria-and-tortured/20060918232609990016?ncid=NWS00010000000001
>             Innocent Man Sent to Syria and Tortured, Probe Finds
>             Canadian Report Faults Mounties, U.S. for Deportation
>             By ROB GILLIES, AP
>             TORONTO (Sept. 19) - The United States "very likely" sent
>             a Canadian
>             software engineer to Syria, where he was tortured, based
>             on the false
>             accusation by Canadian authorities that he was suspected
>             of links to
>             al-Qaida, according to a new government report.
>             Syrian-born Maher Arar was exonerated of all suspicion of
>             terrorist activity
>             by the 2 1/2-year commission of inquiry into his case,
>             which urged the
>             Canadian government to offer him financial compensation.
>             Arar is perhaps the
>             world's best-known case of extraordinary rendition -- the
>             U.S. transfer of
>             foreign terror suspects to third countries without court
>             approval.
>             "I am able to say categorically that there is no evidence
>             to indicate that
>             Mr. Arar has committed any offense or that his activities
>             constitute a
>             threat to the security of Canada," Justice Dennis O'Connor
>             said Monday in a
>             three-volume report on the findings of the inquiry, part
>             of which was made
>             public.
>             Arar was traveling on a Canadian passport when he was
>             detained at New York's
>             Kennedy Airport on Sept. 26, 2002, on his way home from
>             vacation in Tunisia.
>             Arar said U.S. authorities sent him to Syria for
>             interrogation as a
>             suspected member of al-Qaida, a link he denied.
>             He spent nearly a year in prison in Syria and made
>             detailed allegations
>             after his release in 2003 about extensive interrogation,
>             beatings and
>             whippings with electrical cables.
>             O'Connor criticized the U.S. and recommended that Ottawa
>             file formal
>             protests with both Washington and the Syrian government
>             over Arar's
>             treatment.
>             "The American authorities who handled Mr. Arar's case
>             treated Mr. Arar in a
>             most regrettable fashion," O'Connor wrote. "They removed
>             him to Syria
>             against his wishes and in the face of his statements that
>             he would be
>             tortured if sent there. Moreover, they dealt with Canadian
>             officials
>             involved with Mr. Arar's case in a less than forthcoming
>             manner."
>             The U.S. is already under intense criticism from human
>             rights groups over
>             the practice of sending suspects to countries where they
>             could be tortured.
>             U.S. and Syrian officials refused to cooperate with the
>             Canadian inquiry.
>             The commission found the Royal Canadian Mounted Police
>             shared information
>             about Arar with American anti-terrorist agencies both
>             before and after he
>             was detained.
>             The RCMP asked the U.S. to put Arar on a watch list as an
>             "Islamic extremist
>             individual" suspected of links to the al-Qaida terrorist
>             movement, the
>             report said.
>             The request was issued after Arar met with another man who
>             was under
>             surveillance, a meeting Arar has said was about how to
>             find inexpensive
>             computer equipment.
>             "The RCMP had no basis for this description, which had the
>             potential to
>             create serious consequences for Mr. Arar in light of
>             American attitudes and
>             practices," the report said.
>             The RCMP described Arar as the "target" of a domestic
>             anti-terrorist
>             investigation in Canada when in fact he was a peripheral
>             figure who had come
>             under suspicion only because he had been seen in the
>             company of the man who
>             was under surveillance, the report found.
>             O'Connor said that much of the material shared with U.S.
>             authorities had not
>             been double-checked to ensure its accuracy and reliability
>             -- a violation of
>             the RCMP's usual rules for divulging information to
>             foreign agencies.
>             O'Connor concluded that the inaccurate information passed
>             by Canadian police
>             to U.S. authorities "very likely" led to their decision to
>             send Arar to
>             Syria.
>             "It's quite clear that the RCMP sent inaccurate
>             information to U.S.
>             officials," Arar said at a news conference in Ottawa. "I
>             would have not have
>             even been sent to Syria had this information not been
>             given to them."
>             "I have waited a long time to have my name cleared. I was
>             tortured and lost
>             a year of my life. I will never be the same," Arar said.
>             "The United States
>             must take responsibility for what it did to me and must
>             stop destroying more
>             innocent lives with its unlawful actions."
>             The commission concluded there was no evidence Canadian
>             officials
>             participated in or agreed to the decision to send Arar to
>             Syria. But
>             O'Connor recommended that in the future, information
>             should never be
>             provided to a foreign country where there is a credible
>             risk that it will
>             cause or contribute to the use of torture.
>             Most of the judge's 23 policy recommendations centered on
>             the RCMP and
>             emphasized the need to improve the force's internal
>             policies for national
>             security investigations and the sharing of information
>             with other countries.
>             Arar's case has been regularly featured on the front pages
>             of Canadian
>             newspapers and public outcry led to the government calling
>             an inquiry.
>             Canada's federal government established the inquiry in
>             2004 to determine the
>             role Canadian officials played.
>             O'Connor also found "troubling questions" about the role
>             played by Canadian
>             officials in the cases of three other Canadians of Arab
>             descent -- Ahmad El
>             Maati, Abdullah Almalki and Muayyed Nureddin. All claim
>             they were tortured
>             in Syria after traveling there on personal business, and
>             all suspect that
>             the RCMP, Canadian intelligence or both collaborated with
>             their captors.
>             O'Connor said he could not get to the bottom of those
>             cases because of the
>             limited nature of his mandate. But he urged the government
>             to appoint an
>             independent investigator -- something short of a
>             full-fledged public inquiry
>             -- to look into those cases.
>             O'Connor sifted through thousands of pages of documents
>             and sat through
>             testimony from more than 40 witnesses. He delivered two
>             versions of his
>             report to the government: one classified, the other
>             public. But portions of
>             even the public edition of the long-awaited document were
>             withheld due to
>             security concerns.
>             9/19/2006 06:23:35
>             -----------
>             Vision2020 Post: Ted Moffett
>         ------------------------------------------------------------------------
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