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In your "rape suspect" scenario, I wouldn't blame them at all for
arresting me and taking me to jail. I would blame them considerably
for not using the court system, though, which is where most of this
criticism is coming from. We're keeping detainees for years without
access to the court system. Sure a few of them have been sent before
"tribunals" where they don't get to even see the evidence that the
government has against them. We're getting away with torturing them
for information because they have no access to the court systems. Now
we're sending them to countries where we know they will be tortured
without going through the courts.<br>
<br>
Doesn't it strike you as odd that they are so afraid of the court
system that they will go so far out of their way to avoid it? Now they
are attempting to change the laws so that when this whole mess breaks
they won't be charged with war crimes. I hope this country isn't
stupid enough to let them.<br>
<br>
Paul<br>
<br>
Donovan Arnold wrote:
<blockquote
cite="mid20060921055652.65606.qmail@web38111.mail.mud.yahoo.com"
type="cite">I think we have to think about this for a moment.
Obviously, nobody is justifying torture.<br>
<br>
However, I don't think the United States just randomly picked on a guy.
This guy flew into NY City on Sept. 26, 2002. That was just after the
anniversary of September 11, 2001. The guy fit the profile of the
those that flew the airplanes, and they received a phone call from the
country he just came from saying to stop him because he was a terrorist
and was communicating with Bin Laudin and had a plane ticket to visit a
middle eastern country linked to terrorists. He also was not a native
born Westerner but Middle Easterner. <br>
<br>
The guy happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time matching
the description of someone the authorities were looking for. He had a
really bad stroke of luck. <br>
<br>
If you happened to be going for a midnight walk to get some fresh air
and a man matching your description, height, weight, hair and eye
color, and wearing the same thing as you, just raped a woman ten blocks
away , and a witness fingered you as "That's the guy!" to a police
officer, could you blame the officers for taking you in? <br>
<br>
What happened after that was upsetting. But let us be realistic about
this and how the world works. <br>
<br>
Best,<br>
<br>
_DJA<br>
<br>
<br>
<b><i>Dick Sherwin <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:rvrcowboy@clearwire.net"><rvrcowboy@clearwire.net></a></i></b> wrote:
<blockquote class="replbq"
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<div><font face="Arial" size="2">As I understand this story, the
U.S. depended on Canadian officials as to the status of this "Innocent
Man" and he was deported to Syria based on information from Canada. Is
this true, or am I wrong? </font></div>
<div> </div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2">At any rate, mistakes do happen
and perhaps the U.S. officials should have checked out the validity of
the claims by the Canadian Immigration people more closely. I am sure
that Ted and Joe would have made sure, beyond the word of officials of
this guy's own government, that he should not have been deported to
Syria. </font></div>
<div> </div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2">Point being, we have all heard the
story now boys. You can stop trying to make it appear the United
States purposefully exiled an innocent man to a country where our
government knew he would be beaten and mistreated. I know it is
difficult for you both to just let such an opportunity drop but,
believe me, it is no longer current news. Get over it.</font></div>
<div> </div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2">Dick S</font></div>
<blockquote
style="border-left: 2px solid rgb(0, 0, 0); padding-right: 0px; padding-left: 5px; margin-left: 5px; margin-right: 0px;">
<div
style="font-family: arial; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal;">-----
Original Message ----- </div>
<div
style="background: rgb(228, 228, 228) none repeat scroll 0% 50%; -moz-background-clip: initial; -moz-background-origin: initial; -moz-background-inline-policy: initial; font-family: arial; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal;"><b>From:</b>
<a title="starbliss@gmail.com" href="mailto:starbliss@gmail.com">Ted
Moffett</a> </div>
<div
style="font-family: arial; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal;"><b>To:</b>
<a title="joekc@adelphia.net" href="mailto:joekc@adelphia.net">Joe
Campbell</a> </div>
<div
style="font-family: arial; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal;"><b>Cc:</b>
<a title="vision2020@moscow.com"
href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">Vision 2020</a> </div>
<div
style="font-family: arial; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal;"><b>Sent:</b>
Wednesday, September 20, 2006 10:25 AM</div>
<div
style="font-family: arial; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal;"><b>Subject:</b>
Re: [Vision2020] Innocent Man Sent to Syria and Tortured</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Joe et. al.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>Of course not.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>What do you call those who seize an innocent man, kidnap
him to a foreign nation against his will beyond help, deny him access
to review of his imprisonment by any court or judge or any resemblance
to the fundamental legal protections of habeas corpus, beat him,
interrogate him, and take a year of his life away? </div>
<div> </div>
<div>Defenders of freedom! </div>
<div> </div>
<div><a href="http://www.lectlaw.com/def/h001.htm">http://www.lectlaw.com/def/h001.htm</a></div>
<div>
<div>In Brown v. Vasquez, 952 F.2d 1164, 1166 (9th Cir. 1991),
cert. denied, 112 S.Ct. 1778 (1992), the court observed that the
Supreme Court has "recognized the fact that`[t]he writ of habeas corpus
is the fundamental instrument for safeguarding individual freedom
against arbitrary and lawless state action.' Harris v. Nelson, 394 U.S.
286, 290-91 (1969). " Therefore, the writ must be "administered with
the initiative and flexibility essential to insure that miscarriages of
justice within its reach are surfaced and corrected." Harris, 394 U.S.
at 291. </div>
</div>
<div>Ted Moffett<br>
<br>
</div>
<div><span class="gmail_quote">On 9/19/06, <b
class="gmail_sendername">Joe Campbell</b> <<a
href="mailto:joekc@adelphia.net">joekc@adelphia.net</a>> wrote:</span>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote"
style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">Careful,
Ted! You don't want anyone to think that you're supporting terrorists
with this post, do you?<br>
<br>
Best, Joe<br>
<br>
---- Ted Moffett <<a href="mailto:starbliss@gmail.com">starbliss@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
<br>
=============<br>
<a
href="http://articles.news.aol.com/news/_a/innocent-man-sent-to-syria-and-tortured/20060918232609990016?ncid=NWS00010000000001">http://articles.news.aol.com/news/_a/innocent-man-sent-to-syria-and-tortured/20060918232609990016?ncid=NWS00010000000001</a><br>
<br>
Innocent Man Sent to Syria and Tortured, Probe Finds<br>
Canadian Report Faults Mounties, U.S. for Deportation<br>
By ROB GILLIES, AP<br>
<br>
<br>
TORONTO (Sept. 19) - The United States "very likely" sent a Canadian<br>
software engineer to Syria, where he was tortured, based on the false<br>
accusation by Canadian authorities that he was suspected of links to <br>
al-Qaida, according to a new government report.<br>
<br>
Syrian-born Maher Arar was exonerated of all suspicion of terrorist
activity<br>
by the 2 1/2-year commission of inquiry into his case, which urged the<br>
Canadian government to offer him financial compensation. Arar is
perhaps the <br>
world's best-known case of extraordinary rendition -- the U.S. transfer
of<br>
foreign terror suspects to third countries without court approval.<br>
<br>
"I am able to say categorically that there is no evidence to indicate
that <br>
Mr. Arar has committed any offense or that his activities constitute a<br>
threat to the security of Canada," Justice Dennis O'Connor said Monday
in a<br>
three-volume report on the findings of the inquiry, part of which was
made <br>
public.<br>
<br>
Arar was traveling on a Canadian passport when he was detained at New
York's<br>
Kennedy Airport on Sept. 26, 2002, on his way home from vacation in
Tunisia.<br>
<br>
Arar said U.S. authorities sent him to Syria for interrogation as a <br>
suspected member of al-Qaida, a link he denied.<br>
<br>
He spent nearly a year in prison in Syria and made detailed allegations<br>
after his release in 2003 about extensive interrogation, beatings and<br>
whippings with electrical cables. <br>
<br>
O'Connor criticized the U.S. and recommended that Ottawa file formal<br>
protests with both Washington and the Syrian government over Arar's<br>
treatment.<br>
<br>
"The American authorities who handled Mr. Arar's case treated Mr. Arar
in a <br>
most regrettable fashion," O'Connor wrote. "They removed him to Syria<br>
against his wishes and in the face of his statements that he would be<br>
tortured if sent there. Moreover, they dealt with Canadian officials <br>
involved with Mr. Arar's case in a less than forthcoming manner."<br>
<br>
The U.S. is already under intense criticism from human rights groups
over<br>
the practice of sending suspects to countries where they could be
tortured. <br>
<br>
U.S. and Syrian officials refused to cooperate with the Canadian
inquiry.<br>
<br>
The commission found the Royal Canadian Mounted Police shared
information<br>
about Arar with American anti-terrorist agencies both before and after
he <br>
was detained.<br>
<br>
The RCMP asked the U.S. to put Arar on a watch list as an "Islamic
extremist<br>
individual" suspected of links to the al-Qaida terrorist movement, the<br>
report said.<br>
<br>
The request was issued after Arar met with another man who was under <br>
surveillance, a meeting Arar has said was about how to find inexpensive<br>
computer equipment.<br>
<br>
"The RCMP had no basis for this description, which had the potential to<br>
create serious consequences for Mr. Arar in light of American attitudes
and <br>
practices," the report said.<br>
<br>
The RCMP described Arar as the "target" of a domestic anti-terrorist<br>
investigation in Canada when in fact he was a peripheral figure who had
come<br>
under suspicion only because he had been seen in the company of the man
who <br>
was under surveillance, the report found.<br>
<br>
O'Connor said that much of the material shared with U.S. authorities
had not<br>
been double-checked to ensure its accuracy and reliability -- a
violation of<br>
the RCMP's usual rules for divulging information to foreign agencies. <br>
<br>
O'Connor concluded that the inaccurate information passed by Canadian
police<br>
to U.S. authorities "very likely" led to their decision to send Arar to<br>
Syria.<br>
<br>
"It's quite clear that the RCMP sent inaccurate information to U.S.<br>
officials," Arar said at a news conference in Ottawa. "I would have not
have<br>
even been sent to Syria had this information not been given to them."<br>
<br>
"I have waited a long time to have my name cleared. I was tortured and
lost <br>
a year of my life. I will never be the same," Arar said. "The United
States<br>
must take responsibility for what it did to me and must stop destroying
more<br>
innocent lives with its unlawful actions."<br>
<br>
The commission concluded there was no evidence Canadian officials<br>
participated in or agreed to the decision to send Arar to Syria. But<br>
O'Connor recommended that in the future, information should never be<br>
provided to a foreign country where there is a credible risk that it
will <br>
cause or contribute to the use of torture.<br>
<br>
Most of the judge's 23 policy recommendations centered on the RCMP and<br>
emphasized the need to improve the force's internal policies for
national<br>
security investigations and the sharing of information with other
countries. <br>
<br>
Arar's case has been regularly featured on the front pages of Canadian<br>
newspapers and public outcry led to the government calling an inquiry.<br>
Canada's federal government established the inquiry in 2004 to
determine the <br>
role Canadian officials played.<br>
<br>
O'Connor also found "troubling questions" about the role played by
Canadian<br>
officials in the cases of three other Canadians of Arab descent --
Ahmad El<br>
Maati, Abdullah Almalki and Muayyed Nureddin. All claim they were
tortured <br>
in Syria after traveling there on personal business, and all suspect
that<br>
the RCMP, Canadian intelligence or both collaborated with their captors.<br>
<br>
O'Connor said he could not get to the bottom of those cases because of
the <br>
limited nature of his mandate. But he urged the government to appoint an<br>
independent investigator -- something short of a full-fledged public
inquiry<br>
-- to look into those cases.<br>
<br>
O'Connor sifted through thousands of pages of documents and sat through
<br>
testimony from more than 40 witnesses. He delivered two versions of his<br>
report to the government: one classified, the other public. But
portions of<br>
even the public edition of the long-awaited document were withheld due
to <br>
security concerns.<br>
<br>
9/19/2006 06:23:35<br>
<br>
-----------<br>
<br>
Vision2020 Post: Ted Moffett<br>
<br>
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