[Vision2020] Donovan: Liar, Idiot, or both?

[Dick Sherwin]

Sunil,

I would rather kiss mine than yours, if you know what I mean.  I still
believe you are soft when it comes to terrorists.  From reading your posts,
what other opinion could one have?  I mean, how many times have you taken
the side of our (Coalition) soldiers over the accusations against them by
those who hate our military and our country?  It seems that at least once
you might have seen things through the eyes of our troops instead of the
eyes of the enemy.

I respect your right to your opinion but you should also respect the right
of others to form their own opinions about where you stand on issues that
you make public in this public forum.  I have never accused you of any
wrongdoing but only stated my opinion, based on reading what you have
written, consistently.

Perhaps I could sum it up this way... Let's pretend we are all under attack
by radical Muslim extremists and people have to depend on you and ten of
your best friends to protect them or me and ten of my best friends for
protection.  Who do you believe the majority of Americans would put their
faith in?  Oh, I know there are a lot of people here on the forum who would
claim openly to trust their lives to you and your group but I doubt the
majority of Americans would, especially if they were familiar with your
posts.  I also believe it would be interesting to find out just how many of
your supporters here in the forum would really put their fate in your hands,
if necessary.

Of course, this is all ficticious and moot to begin with but I am just
trying to make the point that if you consistently support those who are
prone to terrorism, over your own countrymen, you can't blame others for the
opinons they get about you and where you stand when it comes to the security
of our nation.

Stop blaming others for the opinions they get from reading your own words
over a period of time.

Dick S.
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Sunil Ramalingam" <sunilramalingam at hotmail.com>
To: <vision2020 at moscow.com>
Sent: Sunday, September 17, 2006 2:12 PM
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Donovan: Liar, Idiot, or both?


> Dick,
>
> You are to character analysis what Donovan is to career counseling.
>
> Kiss yourself off, if you can reach.  Go support torture, since you can
live
> with yourself on this.
>
> Sunil
>
>
> >From: "Dick Sherwin" <rvrcowboy at clearwire.net>
> >To: "Vision2020" <vision2020 at moscow.com>,        "Sunil Ramalingam"
> ><sunilramalingam at hotmail.com>
> >Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Donovan: Liar, Idiot, or both?
> >Date: Sun, 17 Sep 2006 10:59:46 -0700
> >
> >And now Sunil resorts to calling names and accusing people of character
> >assassination just because they are of the opinion that he is
supportative
> >of those who wish to do harm to our country.  Sounds a little paranoid to
> >me.
> >Perhaps some of us have scratched a little too close to the core of his
> >real
> >personality for comfort.
> >
> >Sunil expects everyone to agree with him on the definition of torture and
> >what constitutes terrorist acts.  I do not agree with him that our
country
> >has tortured anyone accused of terrorism.
> >
> >Sunil believes the terrorists are above the rules of the Geneva
Conventions
> >but, for some strange reason, we should afford those protections to them.
> >These terrorists are not directly affiliated with any nation with which
we
> >have Geneva Convention obligations too.  They operate independently of
any
> >nation, giving them freedom to ignore treaties and rules of engagement.
To
> >insist we have to treat them under the Geneva Convention rules is
> >ludicrous!
> >
> >Sunil is perfectly free to express his support for these terrorists but
he
> >does not have the power to dictate what I, or others, believe about these
> >people.  Perhaps he should spend more time criticising those who cut off
> >heads of people with whom they disagree, or burn churches and murder
> >innocents in retalition for cartoons they dislike or statements by the
Pope
> >they don't agree with.  I, for one, am sick of hearing all the wailing
and
> >bitching from the Muslim world everytime they feel shunned in some way.
> >They need to grow up and join the 21st century.  Perhaps they were never
> >taught the "Sticks and stones" story.
> >
> >Bottom line is, in my post I stated clearly that it was my opinion that
> >Sunil was supportive of those who wished to bring grave harm to our
nation.
> >I have a right to that opinion, just as he has to his opinions.  To
accuse
> >me of character assassination because of my opinion only reveals Sunil's
> >true feelings further.  He feels that anyone who is of a different
opinion
> >from him shouldn't express their own thoughts.  Sounds a lot like the
> >murders he appears to support.
> >
> >Kiss off Sunil.  I am sick and tired of your crying and bitching.  Your
> >"You
> >are picking on me." attitude and your name calling.  You try to present
> >yourself as a reasonable person but only bury yourself deeper with each
> >post.  We are all just as entitled to our opinions as you are so just get
> >over it.
> >
> >Dick S.
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: "Sunil Ramalingam" <sunilramalingam at hotmail.com>
> >To: <vision2020 at moscow.com>
> >Sent: Sunday, September 17, 2006 10:14 AM
> >Subject: [Vision2020] Donovan: Liar, Idiot, or both?
> >
> >
> > > Donovan,
> > >
> > > First, you are a liar.  You lie that you only attack those who attack
> >you.
> > > You launched this recent character assassination, now joined by Dick
> > > Sherwin, after I asked you a simple question.
> > >
> > > You lie about my opinions and statements.  Here, picked at random from
> >the
> > > list of links you provided, is one of my posts:
> > >
> > > 'Dick,
> > >
> > > Is torture illegal?  Is the President allowed to permit torture?  Are
he
> >or
> > > those who torture in our name immune from prosecution?
> > >
> > > Sunil'
> > >
> > > Please explain, if you can, how this is support of terrorists or
enemies
> >of
> > > the United States.  Of course you may be busy lobbying the Senate to
> >support
> > > the Administration's bill to set up kangaroo courts and permit
evidence
> > > obtaied by torture right now.  Quick, attack Colin Powell too for
> >opposing
> > > torture and the violation of the Geneva Conventions.  Even he can't
stay
> >on
> > > board with this stuff any longer.
> > >
> > > Dick, your statements simply show you cannot understand the idea that
we
> > > have the right and duty to stand up for what we believe, and that
people
> >who
> > > love this country and its principles do not necessarily agree with
you.
> >The
> > > road to a totalitarian state will be paved by people who don't
> >understand
> > > the need for honest dialog and criticism of government.
> > >
> > > Donovan, I can see how your maturity and breadth of life experience
> > > qualifies you to give career advice.  I shall give it all the
attention
> >it
> > > deserves.  For my part, I wouldn't put you in charge of cleaning
> >catboxes
> >or
> > > diapers, work for which you seemed qualified earlier.  You would eat
the
> > > shit and then spew it on this listserve as you have been doing.
> > >
> > > When you are no longer a fool, it will show in your posts.  When you
can
> > > attack my ideas by analysing what I've actually said, I'll be
surprised.
> > > It's easier for you to lie and proclaim your idiocy than it is to
> >actually
> > > do any work.
> > >
> > > Prove your points or shut up, windbag.
> > >
> > > Sunil
> > >
> > >
> > > >From: Donovan Arnold <donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com>
> > > >To: Sunil Ramalingam <sunilramalingam at hotmail.com>,
> >vision2020 at moscow.com
> > > >Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Sunil and His Defense of Terrorists and
> > > >ConvictedChild Molesters
> > > >Date: Sat, 16 Sep 2006 23:30:34 -0700 (PDT)
> > > >
> > > >Sunil,
> > > >
> > > >  I don't disagree with defending the rights of the  accused. I
> >disagree
> > > >with giving any rights at all to convicted and self  admitted child
> > > >molesters over the rights of others. If someone is  accused of child
> > > >molestation, they should get the best defense  possible. But after
> >that,
> > > >shy of a mistrial or rigged trail, lawyers  shouldn't be arguing, in
> >court
> > > >or on-line that they should be free to  go to another city,
> >unsupervised,
> > > >that is FUBAR. To me, that is  supporting Child Molesters over the
> >rights
> > > >of children and other  potential victims. I don't care your logic,
that
> > > >self admitted and  convicted child molesters should have those
rights.
> > > >PERIOD.
> > > >
> > > >   Second, I would never support putting you in charge of the
nation's
> > > >security.  I listed plenty of emails that indicate your position  on
> > > >terrorists. It is my opinion, Sunil, that the tone and language of
> >your
> > > >emails combined, over time,  indicate you sympathize with the  plight
> >of
> > > >the majority of these individuals that wish real harm to  Americans
and
> > > >Westerns. Others are entitled to look at those 20+ emails  over the
> >last
> >3
> > > >years and think otherwise. It is my opinion that any  foreigner that
> >states
> > > >they wish real harm to the United States, its  elected leaders, its
> >people,
> > > >or its property, and has the ability to  act on that statement, the
> > > >military has the duty to detain that  foreigner until her/she is no
> >longer
> > > >poses a threat. It is called  National Security. National Security
and
> >the
> > > >prevention of an immediate  harm and death of the innocent take
> >precedence
> > > >over that of individual  freedom of movement of US enemies.
> > > >
> > > >  Nobody is putting a gun  to your head to represent convicted and
> > > >self-admitted child molesters.  That is your choice, and yours only.
> >Nobody
> > > >is forcing you to  sympathize with the rights of people who say
"Death
> >to
> > > >America". You  could choose to represent the elderly, disabled, or
> >millions
> > > >of other  poor children that are wronged everyday in this country
with
> >no
> > > >shortage of work and just as little pay.
> > > >
> > > >   You spend  way to much time on Vision2020 defending these people.
> > > >
> > > >   But again, I am not going to argue with you. As you could argue
the
> > > >number of the dimples on a golf ball only number two, that is what
you
> >do.
> > > >I am not good at legal argumentation, I cannot even spell half the
> >time.
> > > >But I can tell you my opinion is that convicted child molesters
should
> >not
> > > >go anywhere unsupervised and that terrorists wish harm and  can will
> >bring
> > > >harm to the US should be set free because of some legal  argument,
tell
> > > >that to victims of 911. Your statements, so frequently  and
intensely,
> >as
> > > >you do on a public forum, in my opinion, is defending  them, not
their
> > > >actions, but them.
> > > >
> > > >   Best,
> > > >
> > > >   _DJA
> > >
> > >
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> >
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