[Vision2020] Keely -- not a wielder of great power

Sat Sep 16 18:37:15 PDT 2006

Donovan,

I couldn't care less what you think of me, and I'm sure Sunil is not 
terribly bothered by what you think of him.  And I am well acquainted with 
the definition and criteria for slander.  It is slanderous for you to say 
that Sunil "defends terrorists," particularly given his position as a public 
defender.  The context of "defending" is, in this case, that he works as an 
attorney and "defender" of those accused of crimes.  Should you ever be 
accused of a crime,  I would presume that you would be cognizant of the 
importance of his work.

I am a "master" of nothing, really, and if I wielded the power to make 
people believe the sun really does come up in the  West, my kitchen would be 
a helluva lot cleaner right now, such would be my influence over the 
teenagers living with me.  Frankly, the only thing I would do if I had such 
tremendous powers of persuasion would be to offer to meet with you to 
discuss real issues like real adults.  However, I suspect that would be as 
fruitful as my clearing my plugged kitchen sink by inhaling the contents of 
the drain, and only slightly less unpleasant.

keely

From: Donovan Arnold <donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com>
To: Sunil Ramalingam <sunilramalingam at hotmail.com>, vision2020 at moscow.com
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Sunil and His Defense of Terrorists 
andConvictedChild Molesters
Date: Sat, 16 Sep 2006 14:02:45 -0700 (PDT)

Jackie,

  I never stated that Sunil supports terrorism and  child molestation, that 
is preposterous, re-read what I wrote. I said  he defends those that do.

   Keely,

   The definition of slander is the  saying of something that is false and 
damaging. If it is true, it isn't  slander. Sunil himself admits to 
defending convicted child molesters:

"It is true that I defend convicted child molesters at sentencing

hearings that occur after a client has been convicted by a jury"

        Sunil Ramalingam-- 
http://mailman.fsr.com/pipermail/vision2020/2006-September/035436.html

   Sunil,

  I am not going to try and argue with you. For you are  the master of 
convincing the jury that the Sun really rises in the West  depending on ones 
point of view.

  I am sure that you can  argue that I got the context wrong in some of your 
posts, but after 20+  such posts over 2.5 years it is hard to write all them 
off.

FYI,  I did support Sami Omar. He was living in UI Family Housing at the 
time  he was abducted. I represented Family Housing in the UI student  
government at the time. I defended Sami in student council and even  brought 
his family there, which was even aired on public  television.  I kept in 
contact with John Dickinson about what was  going at the trial in Boise. 
That case is different, because it was a  domestic case and there was no 
evidence whatsoever that Sami was a  terrorist, in fact it all pointed in 
the opposite direction. Further,  Sami was not saying he was planning on 
killing Americans when he gets  out like those detained overseas. And, at 
least one member of Sami's  family was born right here in Moscow.

  I don't think the  government can detain someone forever without at least 
trying to find  out if someone is guilty. But letting them go if they say 
"Death to  America" is just to risky when they are capable of acting on it.

   My disagreement with you Sunil, is that you clearly are brilliant, yet  
rather than using your talents to defend victims in our society, you  use 
your wit and experience to defend convicted child molesters.

   I am not arguing you are not doing your job, or you are not good at it.  
I am arguing that your job should be something more productive and  
meaningful then the release of child molesters and the scum of the  earth 
when you know they are guilty.

  I am sure you with  your big brain will justify that in your own mind. But 
I think anyone  with a heart will ask WHY the child molesters get a good 
lawyer and  trial when there are so many other more deserving and wronged 
people  with their rights being stepped on. They should be a higher priority 
to  you and any lawyer concerned about justice.

   Best,

   _DJA

Sunil Ramalingam <sunilramalingam at hotmail.com> wrote:  Tom,

It is true that I defend convicted child molesters at sentencing hearings
that occur after a client has been convicted by a jury (or a judge in
juvenile cases) at the sentencing hearing and in subsequent legal
proceedings, or at a post-conviction hearing filed by a client who is
usually in prison.  If a convicted child molester is charged with a new
crime, then I may defend that person.  As a public defender I don't judge my
clients; there is no shortage of people ready to do this (regardless of how
much or how little information they have about the crime or the criminal)
and it's not my place or job to do so.  I try to represent them to the best
of my ability, and I don't apologize for this.

I have never represented a convicted terrorist as a lawyer, though I would
were I to be appointed to do so or if I were retained to do so.  I did
represent a witness in Sami al Hussein's case, and am happy I was able to
offer him assistance.  Perhaps Donovan would like to insult me for doing so.

As one who believes our judicial system has underlying principles, I believe
that all people who are held have the right to due process and a fair and
proper hearing.  I do not believe that we have the right to imprison people,
no matter what we label them, forever, or to try them in kangaroo courts.
This is a defense of legal principle and human rights.  I consider it a
defense of our country, and the notion that we have enduring principles
These are beliefs that Donovan neither shares nor supports.  He is a fan of
expedience.

Though Donovan does not support the Iraq war, he appears to find the Bush
Administration infallible once they arrest or confine a Muslim.  At that
point he believes it is appropriate to hold that person indefinately.  I
find this position shameful and disgusting, and Donovan finds me repugnant
because of this, I am willing to live with the loss of his approval.

It is interesting to note the subject line of Donovan's most recent post.
He has claimed he only attacks those who attack him.  Most recently he
incorrectly made fun of Keely's spelling; I asked him if he wanted the same
done to him.  Since we all post all too quickly, we all make spelling
errors, and few of us would really want to have our own posts criticized for
our typos.  This is the point I was making.

Donovan, in the thoughtful and Christian response we have all learned so
well, responds by attacking my character in a way that has the smallest germ
of truth but is intended to be a slur.  I have written him offline and
pointed out that hatred of Middle Easterners has often resulted in racial
slurs and threats being directed towards me; I have told him that I consider
his calling me a defender of terrorists could actually be harmful to me.
You see the effect (or is it 'affect' Donovan?) my request has had on him.

Of course, this is the man, or aging adolescent, who has suggested it would
benefit the gene pool if children were to die playing in construction sites
that should be off-limits if their parents fail to provide proper
supervision, so I would be foolish to expect better of him.

Sunil

 >From: "Tom Hansen"
 >To: "'Donovan Arnold'" ,        "'Sunil
 >Ramalingam'" ,
 >Subject: RE: [Vision2020] Sunil and His Defense of Terrorists and
 >ConvictedChild Molesters
 >Date: Sat, 16 Sep 2006 07:05:37 -0700
 >
 >Arnold -
 >
 >
 >
 >Your statement, here on a public listserve, that Sunil Ramalingam defends
 >convicted child molesters and convicted terrorists, reflects upon your 
lack
 >of maturity and sense of decency, and in virtually all litigious circles
 >maybe considered libelous.
 >
 >
 >
 >Name ONE convicted child molester which Sunil has defended!
 >
 >
 >
 >Name ONE convicted terrorist which Sunil has defended!
 >
 >
 >
 >Failing either of these requests, you owe Sunil a VERY meaningful and VERY
 >public apology.
 >
 >
 >
 >Tom Hansen
 >
 >Vandalville, Idaho
 >

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