[Vision2020] CoetransferredtospecialcommitmentcenteronMcNeilIsland

keely emerinemix kjajmix1 at msn.com
Mon Sep 11 08:14:00 PDT 2006

OK, stop.

Assuming that no one need defend Sunil's place as a member of civilized 
society, could we re-frame the debate?  J Ford feels that rape and 
molestation can leave scars -- physically, emotionally, and spiritually -- 
that kill something of essence in a victim's very being, resulting in a form 
of "living" death that causes more suffering than purely organic death.  In 
her passion to make the point, she has perhaps lumped the horror of Uncle 
Bucky feeling up his young neice -- and that is a horror -- with actual 
rape, murder, and other indisputably horrific acts.  All, she says, can 
result in intense, lifelong, unremitting grief, anger, and pain.  Bucky 
ought to be put away for such an offense, and yet most of us can see that 
while he is a vile, loathsome worm, he is probably not a danger to society 
in the same way Joseph Duncan is and should be dealt with differently.

J speaks from one platform, as someone who likely knows people who have 
suffered in this way; witnessing their pain energizes his/her passion in 
addressing the idea that perhaps sexual abuse is "no big deal" compared to 
murder -- which Sunil didn't suggest.  And Sunil, speaking as a lawyer and 
defender of the American legal system, makes the very valid point that 
black-and-white pronouncements legislated in order to make things 
scrupulously fair usually make things terribly skewed, resulting in 
injustice equal to or greater than what was originally hoped to be remedied. 
  He has a passion for justice, for honoring the law as applied to specific 
cases involving specific people.  For him -- as would be the case with most 
of us -- the term "sexual activity with a child," for example, is very 
different when it involves a 19-year-old man and his 16-year-old girlfriend; 
the prohibition against adults having sex with children likely was meant to 
address something else, no matter how immoral and unwise the 19-year-old's 
behavior is.  Sunil wisely argues that justice is un- just when it's not 
tempered with perspective, reason, and a consideration of circumstances both 
aggravating and mitigating.

Tony, on the other hand, professes a concern for children and victims of 
sexual abuse that is belied by his nastiness and coarseness in virtually 
every communication, and his entry into the arena is, for me, a sign that 
it's probably time to move on.


From: "Tony Simpson" <tonytime at clearwire.net>
To: "Sunil Ramalingam" <sunilramalingam at hotmail.com>
CC: vision2020 at moscow.com
Subject: Re: 
Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2006 02:53:46 -0700

Sunil, you might want to reconsider J's point regarding Duncan.  One can
certainly be murdered spiritually as well as physically.....  The forced
rape of a little child can permanently handicap that innocent youngster both
emotionally and in terms of physical response, permanently preventing them
from experiencing the simple joys that a life is composed of.  Is this not
in fact a form of soul murder?    J makes a valid and compassionate point
here and it would behoove you, as a member of civilized society, to
acknowledge it.

Best,  --Tony
----- Original Message -----
From: "Sunil Ramalingam" <sunilramalingam at hotmail.com>
To: <vision2020 at moscow.com>
Sent: Saturday, September 09, 2006 5:24 PM
Subject: Re: [Vision2020]

 > Duncan is alleged to be a serial killer as well as a child molester.  You
 > claim he's close to average for a sex offender and then claim I'm being
 > obtuse?  Please! That's a ridiculous position to take.  No, it's asinine,
 > absolute nonsense.
 > Please do not compare murder to molestation and claim they're the same.
 > Most people can tell they're two separate crimes, with the former being
 > worse.
 > I don't think the only practice providing treatment to sex offenders,
 > which
 > is based in Clarkston, would come here to provide treatment to one 
 > If I'm wrong, which is possible, then there would be no reason to let
 > Sitler
 > out for treatment.  If they won't come here, then this is a reason to
 > allow
 > him to go to Clarkston for treatment.
 > It's obtuse to claim Coe is having his way when he is going to the
 > facility
 > where the state wishes to keep him what appears to be the rest of his
 > life,
 > in order to prepare for the hearing that will determine his future.
 > Actually, prison provides numerous opportunities to victimize others.
 > Sunil
 >>From: "J Ford" <privatejf32 at hotmail.com>
 >>To: vision2020 at moscow.com
 >>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Coe
 >>Date: Sat, 09 Sep 2006 16:05:46 -0700
 >>Ok, now you're being purposefully obtuse.  There is no way I can say,
 >>without taking a poll, what provider would be willing, or not, to go to
 >>jail and offer treatment.  What I can say is that the ones I have talked
 >>in a casual manner, have said they have never been asked by the court,
 >>have just been asked or ordered to provide the "treatment" and told the
 >>prisoner will come to them.  And no, I will not provide those names as 
 >>know very well that confidentiality prohibits me from doing that.
 >>Coe, through his attorney, requested that he be transferred out of 
 >>to a specific facility.  It was COE's choice and the court went with it.
 >>Duncan is more along the lines of the average molester than you'd like to
 >>admit.  Difference is, he got caught.  Whether they kill their victims or
 >>kill what childhood the victim may have had, the violator has committed a
 >>deadly sin and should be punished accordingly.  Penny's idea of 
 >>them to 25-life right out of the gate makes more sense than 15, with time
 >>off for "good" behavior.  How else are they gonna act in prison than
 >>since there is no opportunity to victimize anyone?
 >>J  :]
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