[Vision2020] Manufacturing Consent & Media

Wed Oct 11 10:52:47 PDT 2006

Bruce et. al.

Thanks for your detailed response...

Perhaps stating in broad terms that you are above "hoi polloi plebian"
speculation was a hasty and ill advised ad hominem oriented statement,
of the sort I usually try to avoid on Vision2020...

I am sorry!

But you did not address the primary focus of my earlier concerns, which
dealt with the debate, both in the US Congress and in the news
media, regarding the recent congressional legislation on detainee legal
issues in the "war on terror," which I believe did not aggressively inform
the public about the details of the gutting of habeas corpus, before the
legislation went to a vote, not with reading anyones mind.

Perhaps you have never read "Manufacturing Consent" by Noam Chomsky...?

When fundamental issues and facts regarding public decision making are not
prominently discussed and debated in news media, or in the US Congress,
while other issues dominate the conversation, one does not have to be a
"mind reader" to point out the debate was "slanted" a certain way, that
critical facts or information were ignored or marginalized (I don't think
"speculation" is the correct word, because when it can be determined by a
survey of the news media that critical issues or facts about pending
legislation in the US Congress were not featured prominently in the public
debate, this is not speculation, it is a fact).

It appears we misunderstood each other?

The "rapscallions" are those who control debate and media information to
serve their ends, misinforming, marginalizing or slanting the information
the public receives in the process.  I do not need to read the actual
contents of anyones mind to recognize that this sort of process is
occurring, a process most people recognize, regardless of their political
orientation.

Who doubts this is a critical issue when misinformation, and the downplaying
of critical counter views, is utilized in the process of bringing a nation
to war?  I can't read Bush's mind regarding his intentions in the invasion
of Iraq (Was he sincerely trying to bring democracy and freedom to the
Middle East, or just protecting oil resources?  Did he really believe Iraq
represented a serious national security threat to the USA via WMDs, or just
using WMDs as a scare tactic to manipulate the public and the US Congress
into buying his "oil war?"), but I can discover that some of the critical
"facts" he presented to the nation to justify this invasion were seriously
in doubt, and that other critical facts and credible sources that
contradicted Bush statements, were not prominently featured in the media,
during the months in the lead up to the war.

By the way, one of the most interesting subjects in philosophy regards the
existence of other minds.  I find it amazing how easily people assume they
know the contents of other people's minds, given the astonishing complexity
of human personality and the human mind (brain?).  In this easy ridiculous
assumption we so readily know the contents of other peoples minds, is
perhaps a clue to why people so often do not understand each other.

Ted Moffett

On 10/10/06, Bruce and Jean Livingston <jeanlivingston at turbonet.com> wrote:
>
>  Ted, you rapscallion!
>
> Indeed last night's MCA reservoir forum was an opportunity to
> "speculate" on what might be done to address local concerns about water
> supply, including as a primary focus, trying to address reservoir issues
> like where would it be; how many, one or a series; what would it cost; how
> would we pay for one; is it a good idea or not; etc., etc.  The short answer
> for Nils is that everyone seemed to agree on the need for a feasibility
> study, and that a site up on the forested, granite slabs near Moscow
> Mountain seemed promising for a variety of reasons -- cleanliness, less
> silt, less leakage, less expensive land, and perhaps more recreational
> opportunity.
>
> Now, for those not privy to my private message to Ted, in which I declined
> to "speculate" on whether the real reason for recent federal legislation
> that grossly limits the availability of habeas corpus was to eviscerate
> habeas corpus (as opposed merely to limiting torture in the name of fighting
> the war on terror, [as I try to recall the question he posed]), let me say
> this, so that I may try to shed his label about me being "above" such
> speculatory "hoi polloi plebian activity."
>
> Habeas corpus has been grossly limited in numerous ways and is continually
> under attack, not only for non-citizens labeled non-combatants, but for
> citizens who reside in this country.  I disagree with the various attempts
> to limit the writ of habeas corpus, whether it be done to non-combatants or
> citizens on death row.  Limiting habeas corpus directly correlates to
> increasing the likelihood that the innocent languish in prison.  Period.  It
> was important enough to explicitly protect in the Constitution (Suspension
> clause -- Art. I, Sec. 9, Cl. 2), when the Framers of the Constitution
> recalled George III and his tyranny and abuse of the citizenry through
> extended incarceration without charges.  The writ of habeas corpus is just
> as important now.
>
> I  found myself roundly applauding Garrison Keillor's condemnation of the
> Senate for caving in on the afore-mentioned legislation, gutting habeas
> corpus, and handing President Bush more tools with which he will cede the
> moral high ground and bring us down, closer to the level of our enemies.
> http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/opinion/chi-0610040035oct04,1,2100411.column
>
> And Ted, I still don't care to speculate on trying to discern the reasons
> of discrete politicians for agreeing to certain language.  I can't read
> their minds.  What matters is the plain language that gets enacted.  But I
> do agree with the importance of the topic and appreciate your heartfelt
> postings on an important subject of debate.
>
> Bruce Livingston
>
>
>
>  ----- Original Message ----- *From:* Ted Moffett <starbliss at gmail.com>
> *To:* Bruce and Jean Livingston <jeanlivingston at turbonet.com>
> *Cc:* vision2020 at moscow.com
> *Sent:* Tuesday, October 10, 2006 12:09 AM
> *Subject:* Re: [Vision2020] Is Moscow Ready for Reservoir?
>
>
>
> Bruce et. al.
>
> The intentions of this MCA meeting sound like speculation about whether a
> reservoir is a reasonable solution to the Palouse's future water needs...
>
> I thought you did not engage in "speculation" on Vision2020?
>
> Perhaps this post is just advertising a meeting where "speculation" will
> occur, so you are not engaging in those lowly thought provoking perhaps
> incorrect ideas that come under the heading of "speculation," on
> Vision2020.
>
> You are above that sort of hoi polloi plebian activity, after all...
>
> Still respecting your commitment to human rights...
>
> Ted Moffett
>
>
>
>
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