[Vision2020] Fw: Debate or Coward?
BMW
BMW at yuber.com
Sun Oct 8 08:59:29 PDT 2006
----- Original Message -----
From: "BMW" <BMW at yuber.com>
To: metzler at moscow.com
Sent: Sunday, October 08, 2006 08:58 AM
Subject: [Vision2020] Debate or Coward?
Well Michael,
I appreciate that you were able to respond my post without accusing me of being naive or stupid, I cannot say the same about your associates on the vision. I hear what you are saying. My point is just because a lot of people are saying something it does not mean that it is true. I know it may seem offensive but my opinion is that J Ford is a little looney. That being said I am not likely to listen to her or research the items that she lists as truth here. I think her version of the truth is often true. However, I think that it has been limited for her ow purposes. I think she takes pieces of this and that and then forms a new statement. I don't like her pirate speech or the way that she comes off as a stalker. I don't like the way that she continues to attack people for things that she does on a daily basis. For that reason, I will occasionally come in here and comment on how she is wrong, because I believe she is and am entitled to that opinion.
I do not think that Wilson is a great guy. I have never met him and would be surprised if I ever did. I have met some of his churchgoers who have been very pleasant people that spoke to me with respect which is more than I can say for Jackie or Tom.
Thanks for your response,
BMW
----- Original Message -----
From: "Michael" <metzler at moscow.com>
To: <vision2020 at moscow.com>
Sent: Saturday, October 07, 2006 07:51 PM
Subject: [Vision2020] Debate or Coward?
BMW,
I don't typically find myself in a position of defending J Ford; but here's
an exception. BMW, your logic is at fault here and not J Ford's. Her claim
was that the amount of criticism "should tell you something." Wilson agrees
with this; he claims it tells you that he's a persecuted prophet from God.
"telling you something" does not have to imply something this strong
however. J Ford's point was simply that she is not the only one saying some
of these things; this was simply a mild tag at the end of her more
substantive claim. She says her claims are true; she asks you to prove them
wrong. She doesn't think that you should be able to rightly shrug your
shoulder and walk away since she is not the only one saying some of the
things she is saying. It is a pretty simply and defensible claim really.
Further, if everyone around me thinks the earth is flat, I should have good
reasons for rejecting the notion, particularly when it certainly looks flat.
You have provided, perhaps unwittingly, a perfect analogy. Perhaps we need
an evidential paradigm shift at this point to somehow think Wilson is a
great guy.
Yours
Michael Metzler
www.poohsthink.com <http://www.poohsthink.com/>
----- Original Message -----
From: "BMW" <BMW at yuber.com
<http://mailman.fsr.com/mailman/listinfo/vision2020> >
To: privatejf32 at hotmail.com
<http://mailman.fsr.com/mailman/listinfo/vision2020>
Sent: Saturday, October 07, 2006 12:04 PM
Subject: [Vision2020] Debate or Coward?
Hey all-
J Ford said,
"PROVE to me what I have said is false or incorrect? Everything I have been
saying and would say about Dougie is the truth. The fact that SO many
others on other blogs are saying things too should tell you something."
Jackie-SO many people said that the world was flat also, what should that
have told us?? Your logic stinks.
BMW
----- Original Message -----
From: "J Ford" <privatejf32 at hotmail.com
<http://mailman.fsr.com/mailman/listinfo/vision2020> >
To: vision2020 at moscow.com
<http://mailman.fsr.com/mailman/listinfo/vision2020>
Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2006 11:19 AM
Subject: [Vision2020] Debate or Coward?
Why would you need my address? NOW that's creepy!!! I noticed you have
never asked anyone else their address....why is that?
And my REAL name is J FORD (I am just not telling you my first name.) My
not giving out my particulars certainly does not prove that what I have
said
if false or to be mistrusted. Heck, I don't know your name to really be
Matt, now do I? And no, I do NOT want your address...or phone number...or
anything else personal. It is not necessary and really, really weird for
anyone to suggest that is the only way they can trust what someone is
saying
is by giving out their address.
PROVE to me what I have said is false or incorrect? Everything I have
been
saying and would say about Dougie is the truth. The fact that SO many
others on other blogs are saying things too should tell you something.
And
no, I am not referring just to Michael - although, his work is very
definitely worth reading and heeding. There are no less than 15 blogs,
from
all over the country, that I know of that speak out against Dougie and his
bunch. They do not live here and they tell of his activities.
I find it very interesting that Dougie continues to take the side of
defrocked beings such as RC, Sitler/Jamin, and others and even volunteers
to
take them into his church to put them among his followers when other
churches have found them guilty of crimes. Heck, even the legal system
finds them guilty and he takes them in. Why is that? Why does he
continually spit in the face of authority and what's right and hide the
sinners under his cloak?
And I am being VERY sincere about the wrongs of Dougie - that is NOT hate,
just facts.
But, if being one of the whipped boyz makes it easier for you to say
anything different, go for it.
Sorry, boy-o - I got nothing to prove to you and therefore will not be
engaging you off-line.
J :]
>From: "Matt Decker" <mattd2107 at hotmail.com
<http://mailman.fsr.com/mailman/listinfo/vision2020> >
>To: privatejf32 at hotmail.com
<http://mailman.fsr.com/mailman/listinfo/vision2020> , metzler at moscow.com
<http://mailman.fsr.com/mailman/listinfo/vision2020> , vision2020 at
moscow.com <http://mailman.fsr.com/mailman/listinfo/vision2020>
>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Debate or Coward?
>Date: Tue, 03 Oct 2006 23:19:14 -0700
>
>
>J,
>
>
>1. If you are trying to convince the public about how Doug is such a bad
>man, why can't you tell your real name?
>
>2. If I am mistaken why don't you just clarify this by telling us here on
>the vision what your address is.
>
>I can't get over the fact that someone hates another so much that they
will
>devote a majority of their viss time on Doug, without being sincere.
Please
>tell me I'm wrong, because your getting really creepy. If I am wrong, I
am
>sorry. Until that point though, a guy has to assume the worst at this
>point.
>Just as I assume the worst about what you are saying. Please just
clarify.
>If you would like talk to me off of the viss.
>
>Matt
>
> >From: "J Ford" <privatejf32 at hotmail.com
<http://mailman.fsr.com/mailman/listinfo/vision2020> >
> >To: metzler at moscow.com
<http://mailman.fsr.com/mailman/listinfo/vision2020> , vision2020 at
moscow.com <http://mailman.fsr.com/mailman/listinfo/vision2020>
> >Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Debate or Coward?
> >Date: Tue, 03 Oct 2006 22:37:47 -0700
> >
> >In order for Dougie-BOY to be a coward, he'd have to be in a position
to
> >run
> >and have the ability to run. He is and has neither.
> >
> >Dougie is just a punk. He thinks if he says something long enough (in
>this
> >case, since 1993) and loud enough and to enough people (his whipped
> >do(u)gs), that people will just give it up and say "Ok, you win."
> >
> >Dougie's non-position of one of feigning a fight behind the
> >sportsboyzfromthekirkhood and the Do(u)gs. This is simpler for him
>because
> >they get to take all the heat, which he in turn tells them ""Tis
nothing,
> >my
> >boyz. Just a bunch of religious persecutors. Pay them no heed." Then
>he
> >stands there and says "What fight? I don't see no stinking fight. I
> >certainly didn't start one."
> >
> >He had no ability to run because he would have to have legs to stand on
>and
> >he knows he does not. He is NOT being persecuted or picked on or
> >slandered.
> > The truth of who and what Dougie is is what others, here and on
other
> >blogs, repeatedly show. He is no Christian (with a capital "C") and
the
> >only truths he knows are the ones he makes up and has rattling around
in
> >his
> >pointed little head.
> >
> >If all else fails, he files false police reports against people who
HAVE
>NO
> >REASON or WANT to do anything aginst him to prove his point of being
> >harassed in an effort to force them to leave. Heck - its worked
before,
> >why
> >not keep doing it to others?
> >
> >To make things interesting, Dougie, why not respond to Michael or Ralph
>or
> >Miss Keely? Why not have people read or listen to you stumble over
> >yourself
> >trying to defend the indefensible? Maybe if you were to do that,
people
> >WOULD get enough of *your* crap and let you go on your merry way
straight
> >to
> >the little rubber room that is reserved for you at the Psych Ward.
> >
> >On the other had, if you *were* to run from yet another fight that you
>HAVE
> >started, you may be able to loose some of that girth you have acquired
in
> >recent years.
> >
> >The line in the sand has been drawn, me boy-o...go for it!
> >
> >
> >J :]
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > >From: "Michael" <metzler at moscow.com
<http://mailman.fsr.com/mailman/listinfo/vision2020> >
> > >To: <vision2020 at moscow.com
<http://mailman.fsr.com/mailman/listinfo/vision2020> >
> > >Subject: [Vision2020] Debate or Coward?
> > >Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2006 18:13:17 -0700
> > >
> > >Doug,
> > >
> > >I seek to disagree. Doug Wilson has been seeking to avoid debating me
>for
> >9
> > >months about anything just after he bagged on our Credenda debate
>towards
> > >the end. He refused to complete the debate and finally have it
>published
> >-
> > >he was dodging my arguments with subterfuge and it would have been an
> > >embarrassment to him. And then he did everything he could (including
> >lying
> > >and bullying) to dodge answering my criticisms on his blog. He has
> >likewise
> > >sought to clamp down on debate over this Ligonier law suit and
refuses
>to
> > >follow through with debate or answer important questions or
challenges
> >from
> > >many people; the same occurred over the RC Sproul Jr Scandal this
last
> > >summer; and the same happened regarding the Sitler issue. It is very
> >clear
> > >who is running from debate and very clear who Wilson's current debate
> > >partners are. Posting a letter from 1993 to prove otherwise is a sad
> > >commentary to how bad the situation has become. But I wish Wilson was
> >just
> > >a
> > >coward.
> > >
> > >Thanks
> > >Michael
> > >
> > >
> > >Sir Ralph,
> > >
> > >Maybe you could finally respond and take Pastor Wilson up on this 14
>year
> > >old request.
> > >
> > >http://www.dougwils.com/index.asp?Action=Anchor
> >
> ><http://www.dougwils.com/index.asp?Action=Anchor
<http://www.dougwils.com/index.asp?Action=Anchor&CategoryID=1&BlogID=2914>
&CategoryID=1&BlogID=2914>
> > >&CategoryID=1&BlogID=2914
> > >
> > >It would be good to get it all out in the open.
> > >
> > >lemeno, Doug!
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > >=======================================================
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