[Vision2020] Debate or Coward?

[Donovan Arnold]

Joe,
  
 If that is what you meant, then why not say that. I am  willing to bet there are numerous differences in religious beliefs  between you and Doug Wilson and those that attack him.
  
  One I can think of is his dispersion of alcohol to children during a religious ceremony. There was big stink over that. 
  
  Another is their believes about homosexuality. I recall you having a few posts in response of that.
  
  Another has been the role of women in Christ Church many of you have attacked. 
  
  Another has been if the Church deserves tax free status, like other Churches. 
  
  Another is Slavery.
  
  Another is Calvinism. 
  
  I do think you bring up a good point though, Joe. I don't ever remember  hearing any speeches by Hitler stating precisely any problems he has  with Judaism, but I don't think anyone would argue he didn't persecute  them for being Jewish. 
  
 If you attack a group of people and  use their church as their identifying marker, such as, "Kirkers are",  "All Catholics are",  "Mormons have", etc, that is religious  discrimination, regardless of how much or little you get into the  details of that church. 
  
  Your statement,
  "As far as I can tell, all of us are on the same team, e.g., we're all Christians."
  
  Shows a complete misunderstanding of religious persecution and  ignorance of the history of religious persecution. For over a thousand  years Christians have attacked other Christians, Protestants and  Catholics. The actual differences between Catholics and Protestants in  practice is so tiny it takes a good long theological debate to find  them. 
  
 When you treat any group or people, or person,  differently because of a church they belong to, that is religious  discrimination. Period. 
  
  Best,
  
  _DJA 
  
  
Joe Campbell <joekc at adelphia.net> wrote:I  have looked at his blog. I've talked to him personally about this and  other issues. More to the point, I'm not making accusations about  Michael's character that I have failed to even attempt to support. 

So  no, Donovan, you are the one who needs to get clear on these issues. If  you want to suggest that all of this is a matter of religious  persecution, then please tell me the particular differences in  RELIGIOUS views between Michael and Doug Wilson. Or between Keely and  Doug Wilson. Or between J Ford and Doug Wilson. Or even between myself  and Doug Wilson, for that matter. If you can't do this, then stop  making those accusations.

As far as I can tell, all of us are on  the same team, e.g., we're all Christians. I'm not saying that there  aren't differences here, I just don't see how one can classify them as  RELIGIOUS differences. If you are going to say that they are religious  differences, then support the claim in some way.

--
Joe Campbell

---- Donovan Arnold  wrote: 

=============
Joe,
  
  Might I suggest you take at look at his blog or ask him yourself.
  
  Best,
  
  _DJA

Joe Campbell   wrote: I'm just wondering, Donovan, what exactly are the RELIGIOUS  beliefs that folks at CC endorse with which Michael disagrees?

Best, Joe

---- Donovan Arnold  wrote: 

=============
Michael,
  
  I really think you need to find a new hobby besides bashing members of a church you disagree with. It cannot be healthy.
  
  Yes, I am sure you can find lots of outrageous, offense, frustrating,  and arguably unfair beliefs and practices of Christ Church. But you  know, they are by far not the biggest or worst religion. And they also  do a lot of good for the community. 
  
 Take my church for  example. It is headed by a former Nazi who later masterminded a  conspiracy to protect the largest number of child molesters in the  United States by moving them around from parish to parish. He oppresses  woman, and preaches that gays are immoral. He has more followers than  any other religion, including in this town. There is another religion  that kills homosexuals and launches violent attacks against people that  even draw a cartoon of their God. 
  
 Nobody is forcing you to  believe or practice what you want. And likewise, nobody has to justify  their personal religious beliefs and actions to you. If you don't agree  with their words and actions you are free to join another religion or  start one of your own. 
  
  Best,
  
  _DJA
  

Michael  wrote:                    st1\:*{behavior:url(#default#ieooui) }                    Donavan!  What are you saying?
     
    Story line again:
     
    Kirkers insult community; Kirkers have big theonomist, take over eschatology.  
     
    Community critiques Kirkers as any community would.
     
    Kirkers unable to rationally defend themselves against criticism; they  instead lie.
     
    Kirkers continue to insult. 
     
    Insults mount from both directions, and through all the smoke, not one meaningful  and true response is found from the Kirk.
     
    This is the story, and this is my point.
     
  You, Donavan, are becoming more mysterious as the months drag on. But  hey, that’s ok; I’ll still be your friend. Even if you  just might have defending the Nazi’s against the persecution  from the Jews! And remember, I still have friends in the Kirk. Call me  Shindler….
     
    Michael
     
     
    Michael,
  
  You wrote:
  
  "Does not anyone at the Kirk have a rational, argumentative point to be  made about the constant and varied public criticism against them?"
  
  Like I said, I think you guys should just take your case to the city  council to require all members of Christ Church be given a giant bright  yellow star to wear on their arm so we can easily recognize them.
  
  Best,
  
  _DJA 
  
  Michael   wrote: 
    
Lucy Jones writes:

 

“If it's not interesting, you could *advertise* it on V2020 the way other bloggers do who need more

 attention.”

 
  I am unceasingly dumfounded at how kirkers can continue to make veiled  and slanderous comments even when they are continually exposed for what  they are. Just this morning I located another kirk blog linked to my  site that revealed yet another misquote. Dale Cortney still refuses to  pull an intentional misquote from my blog that has now been up for  months. This is amazing. After 8 months, and every kirk attack has been  in the form of bald falsehood, nonsensical ridicule, or else strong  critique of strawed-man quotes ripped out of context. Does not anyone  at the Kirk have a rational, argumentative point to be made about the  constant and varied public criticism against them? Outside of the silly  “persecution” ploy?
     
 As for this quote: this  has become one of the steady anti-pooh mantras that kirkers sooth  themselves with. So please allow me just this one time to quickly and  modestly point out the relevant fact that my readership is as strong as  Peter Leithart’s; you might recall how Wilson boasted about  Leithart’s blog in his sermon when explaining why he was the  truly anointed one in Moscow. Apparently, the kind of  “interest” Leithart’s blog gets is evidence for the  fact that YHWH will defend the Kirk against its local enemies; I guess  I now have evidence that YHWH is routing for me too. In sum, I  certainly haven’t sent links to Vision 2020 to keep a  “needed” readership (putting aside the claims that I have a  mental disorder); I just like local readership more than non-local,  given the common topic of my blog (which, by the way, is only about 40%  Kirk stuff these days). 
     
    Dear kirkers, say something true and meaningful. 
     
    Sincerely,
    Michael Metzler 
    www.poohsthink.com 
     
    
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