[Vision2020] Tet Offensive

[Matt Decker]

Sunil,

I don't understand why this conversation went from the medias role in war, 
to the present and other wars, and everyone opinion about them. Can you 
bring me up to speed since I was gone this weekend.

Thanks
Matt


>From: "Sunil Ramalingam" <sunilramalingam at hotmail.com>
>CC: vision2020 at moscow.com
>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Tet Offensive
>Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2006 16:14:31 -0800
>
>Wow, Tony, you're quite a piece of work.  You accuse me of failing to 
>engage
>in fair-minded dialog even as you change the topic.
>
>No Tony, the original question was not 'whether devastating military force
>is a viable option in defeating a very dangerous adversary.'  I don't
>disagree with that when it's being used on military forces, not on
>civilians, and especially when our adversary has started the war, as Japan
>or Nazi Germany did.  But that was never the point in this discussion, and
>Iraq didn't start this war.
>
>The original question is 'How do you define victory in Iraq?'  I ask this
>because my point is that when you use devastating force at the same time 
>you
>claim to be trying to win hearts and minds, you will fail to accomplish the
>latter.
>
>Japan comes up because you and Pat bring it up.  Pat keeps saying that
>because we succeeded in Japan we can do so in Iraq, and I think that's a
>false comparison and entirely barren of the truth.
>
>You ask, ' But why do you see no merit whatsoever in this administration's
>efforts to free this viciously oppressed population?'
>
>I don't think we went to Iraq to free the Iraqi people.  That was not the
>Administration's reason for asking for authority to attack Iraq.  If you 
>are
>interested in honest dialog you will have to concede this point.
>Humanitarian rationales were tossed in like the parsley garnish on the side
>of last night's dinner plate.
>
>No, the reason for the war was because Iraq was supposed to be an imminent
>threat because they had WMD.  Not WMD programs, or the ability to resurrect
>such programs, but because they had such weapons.  And even when the
>inspectors who were on site said they could find nothing, Bush went ahead
>with the war.
>
>The Administration has been changing war rationales ever since, giving one
>story after another, all the while building massive permanent bases in 
>Iraq.
>   When someone repeatedly changes their story, I say to myself, 'He's
>lying.'  And that's what they're doing here - lying. Why are we building
>those bases, Tony?  If we're trying to free them, why do we need a massive
>long-term presence there?  Why do we need the biggest embassy we've ever
>built anywhere?  If Clinton had changed his story this way, both of us 
>would
>be able to spot him lying.
>
>'And why have you so little patience for those who would support our
>leadership in that objective?'
>
>Because people are dying.  Because this idiot plan is not going to work, 
>and
>they're going to keep dying.  And  'those who would support our leadership
>in that objective' cannot point to a single place in the Middle East where 
>a
>plan like this has worked.  Do you think your blind faith in an unproven
>theory is a good enough reason to ask someone else to die?
>
>Sunil
>
>
> >From: "Tony" <tonytime at clearwire.net>
> >To: "Sunil Ramalingam" <sunilramalingam at hotmail.com>
> >CC: <vision2020 at moscow.com>
> >Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Tet Offensive
> >Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2006 14:01:49 -0800
> >
> >Sunil, It is more likely that Pat and I simply disagree with the point 
>you
> >are making than that we are ignorant of it altogether.  We are as aware 
>as
> >you of the bitterly divided nature of Iraq's population.  But remember,
> >Sunil, the original question that gave birth to the historical example of
> >Japan was whether devastating military force is a viable option in
> >defeating a very dangerous adversary.  Clearly in the case of Imperial
> >Japan, it WAS. For you to refuse to acknowledge that historical reality 
>is
> >to fail to engage in a fair-minded dialog.  Of course, because of the
> >divisive nature of Iraqi culture, any solution, military or otherwise, is
> >clearly going to be a greater challenge.  But why do you see no merit
> >whatsoever in this administration's efforts to free this viciously
> >oppressed population?  And why have you so little patience for those who
> >would support our leadership in that objective?
> >
> >Curious,    -T
>
>
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